Adding coffee and vanilla to stout

[grub]

a nice toronto blog about cold pressed coffee.

http://wellpreserved.ca/2012/02/16/how- ... and-why-2/

can you call it cold-pressed if you start the process with hot water? this is the only time i've seen it called a "cold" process and starting with hot water... they do at least point out not to use boiling. wonder if it actually gives "better" results than straight cold - they claim it extracts better, but i've never found a problem with straight cold.

[atomeyes]

a nice toronto blog about cold pressed coffee.

http://wellpreserved.ca/2012/02/16/how- ... and-why-2/

can you call it cold-pressed if you start the process with hot water? this is the only time i've seen it called a "cold" process and starting with hot water... they do at least point out not to use boiling. wonder if it actually gives "better" results than straight cold - they claim it extracts better, but i've never found a problem with straight cold.

the Well Preserved people know their shit.
i get their logic and i get yours.

using espresso machines as an example, the bars of pressure and water temp are key to getting ideal flavours. too hot and you scald the beans. not hot enough and....? not sure. but there is a reason why hot water's used to extract coffee from beans. it may be for crema or to maximize aroma and flavour.

but we may be nit picking. the difference in flavour when you add coffee to a stout may be so subtle. i'd even challenge someone to try with instant coffee and water and see if there's a flavour difference. when its been sitting in a bottle for 1-12 months and is muted (or enhanced?) by malts and ABV, will someone be able to taste the difference? should you use premium espresso beans or regular coffee?

but anyways....

[grub]

but we may be nit picking. the difference in flavour when you add coffee to a stout may be so subtle. i'd even challenge someone to try with instant coffee and water and see if there's a flavour difference. when its been sitting in a bottle for 1-12 months and is muted (or enhanced?) by malts and ABV, will someone be able to taste the difference? should you use premium espresso beans or regular coffee?

i'd argue against instant, just because that shit tends to taste nasty on its own, and i ain't gonna add something nasty to my brews... perhaps some isn't as bad as others...

Espresso does make a difference. I generally use regular coffee, but the one time I used espresso roast it had a distinctly espresso-y character. Interestingly, after about 6-8 weeks in the bottle this had faded to taste more like regular coffee. Coffee character generally fades with time, so I'd argue against holding on to coffee-based beers long term unless you want to revert back to their previous base. But there's definitely a lot of coffee character that can come from the recipe itself, so you can have some of it stick around if you tune toward that.

[atomeyes]

but we may be nit picking. the difference in flavour when you add coffee to a stout may be so subtle. i'd even challenge someone to try with instant coffee and water and see if there's a flavour difference. when its been sitting in a bottle for 1-12 months and is muted (or enhanced?) by malts and ABV, will someone be able to taste the difference? should you use premium espresso beans or regular coffee?

i'd argue against instant, just because that shit tends to taste nasty on its own, and i ain't gonna add something nasty to my brews... perhaps some isn't as bad as others...

Espresso does make a difference. I generally use regular coffee, but the one time I used espresso roast it had a distinctly espresso-y character. Interestingly, after about 6-8 weeks in the bottle this had faded to taste more like regular coffee. Coffee character generally fades with time, so I'd argue against holding on to coffee-based beers long term unless you want to revert back to their previous base. But there's definitely a lot of coffee character that can come from the recipe itself, so you can have some of it stick around if you tune toward that.

with some batches of Peche, i'd definitely let it ride for 3-6 extra months.

something to consider as well: Merchants of Green Coffee (think that's the name) on Broadview and Queen E. they have green coffee beans. you can roast them at home in your toaster oven. its easy. the smell and flavour's amazing. all of the oils are fresh. and i'm pretty certain their beans are organic.

[icemachine]

Many Longo's also offer a selection of green beans (including Organic varieties and Jamacain Blue Mountain) that they will roast on site or you can take home green

[grub]

meh, i'm not sure that once it's buried in a beer you can really tell the difference between "good" and "great" coffee. I'd totally love to get into buying green and roasting and all that, but it would be for drinking rather than brewing. plus it's too much effort if strictly for the once a year or so that I make a coffee beer.

[JasonTremblay]

meh, i'm not sure that once it's buried in a beer you can really tell the difference between "good" and "great" coffee. I'd totally love to get into buying green and roasting and all that, but it would be for drinking rather than brewing. plus it's too much effort if strictly for the once a year or so that I make a coffee beer.

If anyone's interested, these http://www.goldaskitchen.com/merchant.i ... 933&step=4 make decent coffee roasters (and great popcorn).

My only caveat is that anything past a light roast OMG smokes.

The funny thing is that coffee nerds often recommend letting the coffee sit for a couple days post-roasting, so there doesn't really seem to a lot of advantage to roasting your own versus getting a decent coffee shop to do it for you -- using the beans immediately post-roasting is seen as disadvantageous.

FWIW, I found whole coffee beans in a cask or two from Cask Days -- I think dry beaning is a legitimate option. I'm going to guesstimate a quarter pound / 20L.

[grub]

FWIW, I found whole coffee beans in a cask or two from Cask Days -- I think dry beaning is a legitimate option. I'm going to guesstimate a quarter pound / 20L.

the first time Peche was at cask days (2006 or 2007), there was a ton of whole coffee beans in the bottom (remember them leaving and wanting to take their cask with them, so ralph dumped out the last few pints and it was followed by a torrent of beans).

dry beaning is definitely an option, i just find it less precise than adding a "coffee liquor" at packaging time as you can do it specifically to your taste rather than waiting and hoping you transfer it off the beans at the right moment. If you're a pro that does this all the time and knows the amount+contact time to use with a specific recipe, go nuts, but for making a coffee brew once in a while with varying recipe, I'd stick with the cold extraction.

[atomeyes]

FWIW, I found whole coffee beans in a cask or two from Cask Days -- I think dry beaning is a legitimate option. I'm going to guesstimate a quarter pound / 20L.

the first time Peche was at cask days (2006 or 2007), there was a ton of whole coffee beans in the bottom (remember them leaving and wanting to take their cask with them, so ralph dumped out the last few pints and it was followed by a torrent of beans).

dry beaning is definitely an option, i just find it less precise than adding a "coffee liquor" at packaging time as you can do it specifically to your taste rather than waiting and hoping you transfer it off the beans at the right moment. If you're a pro that does this all the time and knows the amount+contact time to use with a specific recipe, go nuts, but for making a coffee brew once in a while with varying recipe, I'd stick with the cold extraction.

cold extraction will also have variables, like:

-bean age
-bean freshness
-time after roasting
-type of bean

you can't go wrong if you swap whole beans for ground beans at 1:1. it will probably taste weaker due to less surface area. so its an experiment that you will do with 5 gallons and kindly report back to us, yes?

[grub]

cold extraction will also have variables, like:

-bean age
-bean freshness
-time after roasting
-type of bean

you can't go wrong if you swap whole beans for ground beans at 1:1. it will probably taste weaker due to less surface area. so its an experiment that you will do with 5 gallons and kindly report back to us, yes?

I'll agree and disagree on the cold extraction bit. I agree that there are variables, but if you're adding it to taste at packaging time, you can add more or less to account for that. If you just throw beans in the fermenter, you don't necessarily know how long it will take. you can get some consistency via using the same bean and such each time, but there's still bound to be nuances to it. The cold extract lets you account for that.

Yeah, whole beans won't extract quite the same as crushed due to the surface area (otherwise we'd all be using whole bean in our coffee makers). There's also the variable of beer vs water involved - alcohol, sugar, etc can all impact the extraction rate.

Sorry, not going to experiment for you. I'll stick with what I know works (and plus there would be 10gal at stake rather than 5!). I'm too lazy to constantly monitor/sample the fermenter to know when it's at the "right" point and then be bound to transfer immediately off. The other benefit of the cold extraction is I add it and package whenever it's convenient for me