The Bar Towel

I think some of the issue of animal bits is wrt vegans. No part of an animal is used anywhere. No leather, no egg white for clarifying (in cooking), no finings in beer etc., it's not limited to the consumption of the animal.

Yes, thanks, this is what I was trying to get at in the OP. In my experience at least, someone who self-describes as "vegetarian" is not that fussed about finings, as they are not consumed per se, but a vegan may find them objectionable (the fish was killed in order to use its bladder). EDIT: Also now see that Chris Schryer has provided a more in-depth and interesting response.

It's interesting that a few vegans believe any food production is possible without some interaction from non-plant organisms. How far we've advanced from a species that had to forage and struggle for enough calories and protein to survive and propagate.

Cheeky story: I heard about a vegan girl who freaked out because she had bit her own cheek. The skin cells she had swallowed were not vegan (I believe she needed to take off a sick week to recover, plus expensive therapy. )

Belgian,
I'm not a vegan, but I know a few, and the guiding principle for many seems to be "using" animals that are "self-aware". You can take what you want from that. This seems to mean that they are okay with the fact worms help keep soil healthy for crops. Interestingly, most vegans will not eat honey, because a bee "made" it (it actually just converts nectar into it in a second stomach, but whatever). The bees don't starve, they're not mistreated, but they made the honey. These vegans will eat apples, pears etc, though, which would not fruit if not for cross-pollination, nearly all of which happens via living animals, like bees, humming birds, etc. It's possible that it can happen via branches touching/breezes, etc, but really, the lion's share of the work is done by animals. I've never had a conversation in which a vegan gave a satisfactory explanation for this.....

chris_schryer wrote:Belgian,
I'm not a vegan, but I know a few, and the guiding principle for many seems to be "using" animals that are "self-aware". You can take what you want from that. This seems to mean that they are okay with the fact worms help keep soil healthy for crops. Interestingly, most vegans will not eat honey, because a bee "made" it (it actually just converts nectar into it in a second stomach, but whatever). The bees don't starve, they're not mistreated, but they made the honey. These vegans will eat apples, pears etc, though, which would not fruit if not for cross-pollination, nearly all of which happens via living animals, like bees, humming birds, etc. It's possible that it can happen via branches touching/breezes, etc, but really, the lion's share of the work is done by animals. I've never had a conversation in which a vegan gave a satisfactory explanation for this.....

I won't wade into this debate, but the best and most sensitive treatment I've ever read on vegetarianism and veganism is in the intro of Hugh Fearnley-Wittingstal's Meat Book. Won't paraphrase here, but it's worth checking out.

I should note, though, that since then, he has chosen to eat drastically less meat and much more veg, but he's still very much omnivorous.

Hey folks,

There are also concerns over whether or not gelatin and isinglass are kosher (or halal, for that matter, but the idea of "halal beer" is, I believe, a non-starter). And, odd as it may seem, there are people with gelatin allergies (a quick googling shows that some people have gone into anaphylaxis over gelatin in vaccines).

I'd also like to point out that meat eaters are rarely required to deliver well-reasoned theses defending their food choices.

Jason

JasonTremblay wrote: I'd also like to point out that meat eaters are rarely required to deliver well-reasoned theses defending their food choices.

Jason

Try hanging out with more veggies/vegans. (Or not)

Peter Collins wrote:

JasonTremblay wrote: I'd also like to point out that meat eaters are rarely required to deliver well-reasoned theses defending their food choices.

Jason

Try hanging out with more veggies/vegans. (Or not)

*looks up*

I am one :p

I remember now.

I've had a few vegetarian/vegan friends tell me they wont touch wine or beer because of isinglass and the out dated belief that they are used in all cases/products. I usually direct them to www.barnivore.com

It isn't comprehensive but it's still a great resource.

I'm cool with that Chris, I mostly refuse to support cruelty to animals.