The Bar Towel

TheSevenDuffs wrote:If you are buying higher cost craft beer, it is a different story as duty is calculated based on both cost and volume. My from experience, duty tends to be about 30% on craft beer (that is 30% of the total cost of the beer)...

Yes, they tend to slap the <> 30 per cent on the grand total so you get to pay taxes on the sales tax, deposit, etc. but then again sometimes they 'cut a deal' and treat it as 24 or 48 'regular' beers (good-natured inspection officers, another reason to always be polite and honest.)

Rather than worry about it I would just assume you have to pay an extra 30% at the border - and be happy if you don't.

Of course if you are getting hit 30% on hundreds of dollars of beer each time, it might be cheaper to go on more trips with fewer bottles each time (I'm thinking Buffalo.) Or else just cheerfully pay the money & call it a 'fuck you Ontario' tax, that works for me too.

Belgian wrote:

TheSevenDuffs wrote:If you are buying higher cost craft beer, it is a different story as duty is calculated based on both cost and volume. My from experience, duty tends to be about 30% on craft beer (that is 30% of the total cost of the beer)...

Yes, they tend to slap the <> 30 per cent on the grand total so you get to pay taxes on the sales tax, deposit, etc. but then again sometimes they 'cut a deal' and treat it as 24 or 48 'regular' beers (good-natured inspection officers, another reason to always be polite and honest.)

I personally HATE this method, so do everything I can to avoid paying duty on the grand total - especially if it's kegs... i don't want to pay another 30% on top of the cost of my $30-50 keg deposit! usually it's as easy as mixing in some non-booze items and pointing out that it's not all alcohol on the bill, then giving them a total for the booze only (excluding tax, deposit, and non-booze items). Sometimes they're ambitious and have you mark what is alcohol on the receipt and they total it up, but usually they look at a long receipt and give up and just ask for a total.

grub wrote:I personally HATE this method, so do everything I can to avoid paying duty on the grand total - especially if it's kegs... i don't want to pay another 30% on top of the cost of my $30-50 keg deposit! usually it's as easy as mixing in some non-booze items and pointing out that it's not all alcohol on the bill, then giving them a total for the booze only (excluding tax, deposit, and non-booze items). Sometimes they're ambitious and have you mark what is alcohol on the receipt and they total it up, but usually they look at a long receipt and give up and just ask for a total.

I do this as well. Specifically if I have ordered beer on line, they will make me pay duty on the shipping as well, which can be very expensive. So when I "summariaze" everything for them I exclude the shipping. If they ask, I am honest but paying 30% duty on the shipping is ridiculous.

It varies bridge by bridge too.

I get hit maybe 20% for taxes at Queenston, 50% at Fort Erie, and every time at Rainbow. I have yet to pay tax on any beer crossing at Sarnia or Ogdenburg (of all places) but have been requested to pay *far* more than normal at some other crossings. Pigeon River outside Thunder Bay is an especially bad one (especially if you have hard liquor), but Derby Line from Vermont into Quebec is the absolute worst if you haven't been across over 48 hours. Have had the car ransacked and have been asked to pay over 50% a couple times.

sprague11 wrote:It varies bridge by bridge too.

I get hit maybe 20% for taxes at Queenston, 50% at Fort Erie, and every time at Rainbow..

That's an interesting observation. I cross at the Rainbow Bridge 90% of the time and pay duty an awful lot. The one time I crossed at the Peace Bridge in 2012 I got waived through despite having declared two cases on a 4 hour trip. I hate Queenston. You couldn't pay me enough to wait in the ridiculously long lineups at that crossing.

It makes sense, if you think about it. I should cross at Ft. Erie more often, it's just out of my way, almost all of the time.

Sounds like we have a deeply-flawed system of state tariff collection that relies on all these little fiefdoms and random abuses of official power.

Petty and unjustifiable. They're not protecting the Canadian market, they are administering a very Canadian form of punishment designed to keep people nervous about authority & fearful of stepping out of line.

sprague11 wrote:I have yet to pay tax on any beer crossing at Sarnia or Ogdenburg (of all places) but have been requested to pay *far* more than normal at some other crossings.

I live in Ottawa so we usually cross at Oggensdburg. They usually don't care about beer, but a couple times they have got kind of pissed off about food. Usually it is the guy in the booth who has the problem and sends us inside, then when we get into the counter the agent inside looks at our receipts and justs tells us to go. There was even one time when I didn't buy beer but the guy looked at our receipts for groceries and told us too much of our stuff was considered junk food and told us to go inside. The person inside just said something about how that guy was sending everyone in and told us to have a nice day.

Kel Varnsen wrote:There was even one time when I didn't buy beer but the guy looked at our receipts for groceries and told us too much of our stuff was considered junk food and told us to go inside. The person inside just said something about how that guy was sending everyone in and told us to have a nice day.

That guy sounds like a real winner...

Ha - I think I had him before - Got sent in with 30 bottles only to be sent back out without paying anything.

TheSevenDuffs wrote:

Kel Varnsen wrote:There was even one time when I didn't buy beer but the guy looked at our receipts for groceries and told us too much of our stuff was considered junk food and told us to go inside. The person inside just said something about how that guy was sending everyone in and told us to have a nice day.

That guy sounds like a real winner...

Yea you know when the other border agents are trashing you, then someone should realize that something is up.

one note re: liquor (since i saw it mentioned above). the quoted ~30% duty on beer doesn't apply to liquor. if they're following the letter of the law, they're supposed to do it by volume and alcohol content. anytime i've had to pay duty on a bottle of booze it's more like 110% of the cost of the bottle. in university i'd make frequent trips to detroit and often grab a bottle at the duty free. most of the time i'd get through without paying (woohoo! cheap booze!), but when you did have to pay it hurt... though still no more expensive than buying at the LCBO.

crossing after the kuhnhenn solstice party about 5 or 6 years ago i had, among other things, a case of raspberry eisbock for a bunch of people. 24x 6oz bottles @ 13.5% and $10/bottle. happened to mention that in conversation while i was paying my duty, and the guy picked up on it right away and punched them in separately. ended up being almost $5/bottle in duty (closer to 50%) due to the higher abv.

Yeah, it doesn't count as 'beer' past 11.9%.

grub wrote:

Belgian wrote:

TheSevenDuffs wrote:If you are buying higher cost craft beer, it is a different story as duty is calculated based on both cost and volume. My from experience, duty tends to be about 30% on craft beer (that is 30% of the total cost of the beer)...

Yes, they tend to slap the <> 30 per cent on the grand total so you get to pay taxes on the sales tax, deposit, etc. but then again sometimes they 'cut a deal' and treat it as 24 or 48 'regular' beers (good-natured inspection officers, another reason to always be polite and honest.)

I personally HATE this method, so do everything I can to avoid paying duty on the grand total - especially if it's kegs... i don't want to pay another 30% on top of the cost of my $30-50 keg deposit! usually it's as easy as mixing in some non-booze items and pointing out that it's not all alcohol on the bill, then giving them a total for the booze only (excluding tax, deposit, and non-booze items). Sometimes they're ambitious and have you mark what is alcohol on the receipt and they total it up, but usually they look at a long receipt and give up and just ask for a total.

I've never had to pay duty on the keg deposit (as long as its a line item on the receipt) - they seem to be very good about only charging duty for the beer itself.

Road quality permitting, I'm headed down to Detroit tomorrow - got a keg of Jolly Pumpkin Fuego del Otono, a keg of Ommegang Hennepin, and a couple bottles of De Dolle Stille Nacht Reserva 2010 waiting for me

Cass wrote:Yeah, it doesn't count as 'beer' past 11.9%.

that's the new rule in the last year or so... since everyone knows nobody makes "beer" above 11.9%. this was a while before that came into effect. scared to see what they'd tax it at now.

grub wrote:

Cass wrote:Yeah, it doesn't count as 'beer' past 11.9%.

that's the new rule in the last year or so... since everyone knows nobody makes "beer" above 11.9%. this was a while before that came into effect. scared to see what they'd tax it at now.

Well, at 12% or higher it's "$11.696/litre of absolute ethyl alcohol" so they'd have to bust out the calculators on those guys.