The Bar Towel

toweringpine wrote:Let them strike and let them strike for a long time. Maybe that will give the public push needed to be done with the LCBO and open up the system.

If we do strike, it wont be for very long.
I won`t be too upset. I could use a week off.

This may be my excuse to finally hit the Bellwoods retail store and just go into survivalist mode. Or, if the strike lasts a while, finally start dipping into my cellar.

But as SteelbackGuy said, it's probably going to be short-lived.

I think the system is broken and needs a major overhaul or complete disbanding but I hate the fact that the people involved could be hurt. The people on the 'Towel that work at the LCBO I suspect would be fine of the whole thing went away. There would be a lot more stores and most of them would suck but there would be a real need for people with experience and actual product knowledge to staff and manage the better stores that we all hope would rise from the ashes. You gotta admit that anyone who feels that a strike would be a nice break is obviously not too hard done by.

Hope they don't strike, but glad to be next to Quebec if they do.

SteelbackGuy wrote:

toweringpine wrote:Let them strike and let them strike for a long time. Maybe that will give the public push needed to be done with the LCBO and open up the system.

If we do strike, it wont be for very long.
I won`t be too upset. I could use a week off.

I wouldn't expect the strike to last long either. I expect the government to cave.

Out of curiousity, what do you think will happen?

mintjellie wrote:

SteelbackGuy wrote:

toweringpine wrote:Let them strike and let them strike for a long time. Maybe that will give the public push needed to be done with the LCBO and open up the system.

If we do strike, it wont be for very long.
I won`t be too upset. I could use a week off.

I wouldn't expect the strike to last long either. I expect the government to cave.

Out of curiousity, what do you think will happen?

Years of experience leads me to believe a few things. The first of which is the biggest problem in my opinion. Media spin and end of days propaganda, which in turn leads to panic, and results in record daily profits for this organization.
The notion that everyone has to get out there and `stock up` is complete nonsense. Even if there is a strike, managers, dms, and other HR people will be working at select stores serving the public just as CSRs are doing now. So the idea that one is not able to access their alcohol is plain silly.

The negotiations will fail. A strike will be approved, and it will come down to the wire, as it always does.

The LCBO is a management-top-heavy organization with probably a hundred or so archaic and obsolete management positions. These types give themselves bonuses and find ways of keeping themselves in a job. They do it by cutting store budgets and by trying to cut positions at lower levels. They will not take pay cuts, or stop giving themselves bonuses......

The Union, fairly enough, opposes this sort of thing and will not budge give that the gravy train at corporate LCBO is ohh soo good. So the suits will protect their jobs and all of their executive titles and positions, and the union will fight like hell not to take concessions so that the suits can stay rich.

I can tell you that I think it will be like every other strike. Down to the wire, with the public mislead and forced to go last munite shopping that the LCBO makes record daily profits YET AGAIN!

mintjellie wrote:Let them strike. Let them picket endlessly. Let them deplete their financial reserves until the union has no money left to pay strike wages, and it's members come crawling back to the bargaining table willing to accept ANY terms just to go back to work.

i have lived in Toronto for 13 years. other than the garbage strike(s), i have never, ever witnessed a city or provincial government make strikers crawl back to the table. usually the govt gives in.

We're talking about alcohol sales here. This isn't fighting fires, or solving crime, or taking trauma patients to hospitals. Being unable to visit the LCBO is nothing more than a minor inconveniece. No one actually needs the LCBO to survive.

the average # of times a month a taxpayer needs a visit from the fireman, policeman or a hospital versus a visit from Mr Ethanol? we care more about liquor strikes. trust me.

SteelbackGuy wrote: The LCBO is a management-top-heavy organization with probably a hundred or so archaic and obsolete management positions. These types give themselves bonuses and find ways of keeping themselves in a job. They do it by cutting store budgets and by trying to cut positions at lower levels. They will not take pay cuts, or stop giving themselves bonuses......

i found this page the other day.

http://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/LCBO-Sal ... 311955.htm

people have to realize that this is taxpayers' money.

atomeyes wrote: i found this page the other day.

http://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/LCBO-Sal ... 311955.htm

people have to realize that this is taxpayers' money.

I think your inference is extremely unfair. Looking at some of the titles of the people listed, I don't have a problem with them making what they make. If they worked in the private sector in simlar jobs they would likely earn similar money. Sometimes I think people lose perspective and think that no government job should pay a good salary because it is "taxpayer money" but if you want to be able to rectruit qualified people for these positions, you have to be willing to pay them what the private sector would pay them.

Indeed. Do you really want all public service positions filled by people who can't get a private sector job for more money? If not then the pay has to be reasonable and competitive. Whether or not the current levels of pay meets that criteria is a different story, but expecting them all to work for peanuts is also unrealistic. The LCBO is a massive organization and requires HR and IT etc capacity accordingly.

As long as it's not before I get my bottle of Utopias...

atomeyes wrote:

SteelbackGuy wrote: The LCBO is a management-top-heavy organization with probably a hundred or so archaic and obsolete management positions. These types give themselves bonuses and find ways of keeping themselves in a job. They do it by cutting store budgets and by trying to cut positions at lower levels. They will not take pay cuts, or stop giving themselves bonuses......

i found this page the other day.

http://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/LCBO-Sal ... 311955.htm

people have to realize that this is taxpayers' money.

Is that taxpayers' money, though? That seems misleading. A publicly-owned corporation is not the same as a company run solely through tax dollars.

The LCBO is highly profitable, as far as I know. These salaries are being paid not out of public coffers but out of revenue. The only time we should be upset about diverted tax dollars is when the LCBO is losing money and is being kept alive by our taxes.

Edit: I guess there's an argument that any decrease in profits is akin to a reduction in the amount of public funds. That is, each dollar spent out of revenue is one dollar NOT sent back to the province. I think this is grasping, though. Business decisions are more complicated than that.

TheSevenDuffs wrote:

atomeyes wrote: i found this page the other day.

http://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/LCBO-Sal ... 311955.htm

people have to realize that this is taxpayers' money.

I think your inference is extremely unfair. Looking at some of the titles of the people listed, I don't have a problem with them making what they make. If they worked in the private sector in simlar jobs they would likely earn similar money. Sometimes I think people lose perspective and think that no government job should pay a good salary because it is "taxpayer money" but if you want to be able to rectruit qualified people for these positions, you have to be willing to pay them what the private sector would pay them.

Agreed. The LCBO is a huge retail operation. How much do District Managers or whatever with similar responsibilities work for similar retail operations? Perhaps the LCBO has more of these jobs than a similar retail operation, but those salaries by themselves don't look too crazy to me. I have very little experience in that industry though, so I'd be happy to be told I'm wrong.

My issue would be more at the store level. How much does a floor worker (CSR?) make at the LCBO compared to someone at Home Depot, or the Future Shop, or something like that? I get that the LCBO has this whole social responsibility thing with keeping alcohol from minors, but the guy working at Macs does the same with cigarettes.

rejtable wrote:My issue would be more at the store level. How much does a floor worker (CSR?) make at the LCBO compared to someone at Home Depot, or the Future Shop, or something like that? I get that the LCBO has this whole social responsibility thing with keeping alcohol from minors, but the guy working at Macs does the same with cigarettes.

That's probably the real question here. All we know is that they make less than $100,000 a year. lol

TheSevenDuffs wrote:

rejtable wrote:My issue would be more at the store level. How much does a floor worker (CSR?) make at the LCBO compared to someone at Home Depot, or the Future Shop, or something like that? I get that the LCBO has this whole social responsibility thing with keeping alcohol from minors, but the guy working at Macs does the same with cigarettes.

That's probably the real question here. All we know is that they make less than $100,000 a year. lol

I made less than $30,000 last year. Yeah, I`m spoiled.