The Bar Towel

How is the Brutal IPA tasting this time round? I haven't had it in a couple years and recall it being kinda floral smelling/tasting.

Not brutal. More citrus/floral than pine to me. I get orange peel flavour. Not excessively bitter. I liked it, those looking for a really big bitter IPA may be disappointed.

Liking the Northwestern a lot more than I remember, will re-try the Chipotle for curiosity. Brutal was good of course, it's different every time.

Belgian wrote:Liking the Northwestern a lot more than I remember, will re-try the Chipotle for curiosity. Brutal was good of course, it's different every time.

Chipotle is great. Use it for drinking, marinating, braising, and in stews and chilis!

georgebest wrote: Not brutal. More citrus/floral than pine to me. I get orange peel flavour. Not excessively bitter. I liked it, those looking for a really big bitter IPA may be disappointed.

By the sounds of it, this is simply the Brutal Bitter - which is a great example of a North American-style ESB - repackaged as an "IPA." I'm not sure why they went with the re-branding and name change. Under the "Bitter" moniker, it was one of the best, most hop-forward ESBs out there. I'll still be buying bucket loads once it becomes available, since it's a great beer either way, but the name change confuses me.

cratez wrote:

georgebest wrote: Not brutal. More citrus/floral than pine to me. I get orange peel flavour. Not excessively bitter. I liked it, those looking for a really big bitter IPA may be disappointed.

By the sounds of it, this is simply the Brutal Bitter - which is a great example of a North American-style ESB - repackaged as an "IPA." I'm not sure why they went with the re-branding and name change. Under the "Bitter" moniker, it was one of the best, most hop-forward ESBs out there. I'll still be buying bucket loads once it becomes available, since it's a great beer either way, but the name change confuses me.

Maybe it's because we're in Canada and our domestic IPAs often have a more pronounced malt body to them, but calling it an ESB always confused me. Personally, I think the re-branding makes sense.

If you're in downtown TO, the LCBO at Spadina and King has stock on the various Rogue offerings. Plenty on hand at 5:00pm Tuesday.

why are none of these showing up in KW?

notdan wrote: Calling it an ESB always confused me. Personally, I think the re-branding makes sense.

To me the Brutal Bitter was very similar to other hop-forward, American-style ESBs that I've tried like the Goose Island and Southern Tier Harvest Ales. I find that these beers have more of a peachy-orangey-apricot aroma and flavour than a typical U.S. IPA, a much more 'rounded' hop character and bitterness (less abrasive/astringent, not as pithy and lingering), and a little more sweetness as well. But they also have plenty of pine, citrus, and stone fruit on the nose and palate, which is why I think they get confused with IPAs.

Having said that, there's no 'confusion' here, is there? The brewer has given up on trying to pass this off as a US-style ESB, and has gone for the IPA label instead. If this re-branded "IPA" is the exact same recipe as the Bitter, I don't personally agree with the name change (confused was the wrong word to use) but I'm nevertheless willing to respect the brewer's intentions and judge the beer accordingly.

I have (I think) a case of the Brutal on order at my local LCBO. Kind of hard to tell after all the bullshit I was fed during the conversation.

cratez wrote:

notdan wrote: Calling it an ESB always confused me. Personally, I think the re-branding makes sense.

To me the Brutal Bitter was very similar to other hop-forward, American-style ESBs that I've tried like the Goose Island and Southern Tier Harvest Ales. I find that these beers have more of a peachy-orangey-apricot aroma and flavour than a typical U.S. IPA, a much more 'rounded' hop character and bitterness (less abrasive/astringent, not as pithy and lingering), and a little more sweetness as well. But they also have plenty of pine, citrus, and stone fruit on the nose and palate, which is why I think they get confused with IPAs.

Having said that, there's no 'confusion' here, is there? The brewer has given up on trying to pass this off as a US-style ESB, and has gone for the IPA label instead. If this re-branded "IPA" is the exact same recipe as the Bitter, I don't personally agree with the name change (confused was the wrong word to use) but I'm nevertheless willing to respect the brewer's intentions and judge the beer accordingly.

That would be my issue/fault, I'm not personally familiar with many (if any) American ESBs. I'm stuck with the British template, which I love, and I would likely find it hard to distinguish between an American ESB and a somewhat malty American IPA (American strong ale?). Really doesn't matter, it's a tasty beer and I'll be buying some regardless of the name. I don't like catching myself worrying about style categorization (unless we're talking something like Keith's, of course).

notdan wrote: That would be my issue/fault, I'm not personally familiar with many (if any) American ESBs. I'm stuck with the British template, which I love, and I would likely find it hard to distinguish between an American ESB and a somewhat malty American IPA (American strong ale?). Really doesn't matter, it's a tasty beer and I'll be buying some regardless of the name. I don't like catching myself worrying about style categorization (unless we're talking something like Keith's, of course).

If you can get your hands on them, try the examples I listed, you'll likely notice that they're unique in character in comparison to American IPAs of any sort. Also, although I haven't sampled them yet, Three Floyd's Lord Admiral Nelson, Red Racer ESB, and Rogue Younger's Special Bitter are supposed to be similarly good examples of hop-forward, American-style ESBs. Based on my understanding, the "American" style is simply marked by ESBs that use both English and American ingredients (usually hops), OR North American-brewed ESBs that have higher levels of English hops than traditional British ESBs.

Because Stephen Woodsworth, Harold Albrecht, and Peter Braid are conspiring with the LCBO to keep us bored as hell.

Why would they do that?

The Oakville location at Trafalgar & Cornwall had what appeared to be 2 cases or so of DDG on the shelf an hour ago. There's a few less bottles now that I came and went but still plenty available...

TheSevenDuffs wrote:The Oakville location at Trafalgar & Cornwall had what appeared to be 2 cases or so of DDG on the shelf an hour ago. There's a few less bottles now that I came and went but still plenty available...

Damn, its all spoken for.