The Bar Towel

TheSevenDuffs wrote:

gordonpeterwiebe wrote:GLB, sawdust and nickelbrook (unfortunately, not recently for nickelbrook though) are all far better imo.
I just don't get the fanboyism for bellwoods. I love that they put out a tonne of different beers... but, it all tastes a little amateur to me.

It's funny how much opinions can vary on this subject. For me, Sawdust isn't even top 3. Maybe not even top 5.

No point in debating what is a matter of personal preference. You can continue to enjoy Sawdust and I will do the same with Bellwoods.

well, why not debate it? isn't that was a forum's about?
Sawdust gets rave reviews from a lot of people. considering how new it is and the quality of some of his beer, i think he's definitely a top 5 ontario brewery and will be top 3 within 1-2 years.

atomeyes wrote:

gordonpeterwiebe wrote:GLB, sawdust and nickelbrook (unfortunately, not recently for nickelbrook though) are all far better imo.
I just don't get the fanboyism for bellwoods. I love that they put out a tonne of different beers... but, it all tastes a little amateur to me.

that's probably the funniest thing i've read in a while.
FYI, when i go to Belgium, all they want is that amateur Bellwoods stuff. trading with the states? they want Bellwoods.

i still put BW in my top 3 ontario breweries and def in the top 5 in canada. i think their barrel projects are ambitious, as are the styles they're brewing. they were using brett when few other Ontario breweries (Amsterdam and GLB would, on occasion, for keg releases) were doing it.

i had a pint of 3min on Saturday. i really, really enjoyed it. it's a perfect beer to have with chocolate. alcohol heat is low. fruit's at a perfect balance.

I'm a bit of a Bellwoods fanboy, but it's really hard to think of anyone that can consistently compete with them across the board within Ontario. Not many breweries produce excellent IPA's, sours, and a range in between. Of course, I don't love every beer, and I'm almost certainly going to be trading some of my 3 Minutes to Midnight purchase, as it just didn't wow me for the price. But for me, it's a stylistic thing...I think I just don't like beers with that much sweetness/booziness.

I'll also second the notion of people outside the country knowing of/loving Bellwoods. I've gotten Bellwoods bottles to bars/shops in Amsterdam and Japan to much excitement and appreciation. I don't think someone would give me a 750 of Cantillon in exchange for a bottle of Sawdust City, but they happily did so in Amsterdam.

Finally, take a look at prices for barrel-aged releases elsewhere. I recently learned that the Rare Barrel in Berkeley is now commanding $20-$30+ per bottle for barrel-aged beer. So $12 is not at all unreasonable.

atomeyes wrote:
well, why not debate it? isn't that was a forum's about?

Could be an interesting debate, but probably doesn't belong in this thread. Agree about Sawdust. I would put them at #4 and trending upward.

I have no idea why, but Bellwoods are the only barrel-aged beers I can really enjoy. And I like them a lot! Others just don't agree with me.

I just cannot see how they justify their prices though, as they don't even go through a middle man. Can you imagine the cost of their beers if they were in the LCBO?!
I look at a brewery like Hill Farmstead and they don't even charge as much as BW...and they have been consistently rated among the best in the world!
I am not trying to knock BW and although I don't think they are amazing, I have enjoyed some of their offerings. My original point is that I would be willing to support them a bit more if their price point was realistic.

-Liam- wrote:My original point is that I would be willing to support them a bit more if their price point was realistic.

I think we'd all be drinking a lot more Bellwoods if the prices were lower. But as has been said before, they have a tough time keeping up with demand and lowering prices would only exacerbate that problem.

I think some of their beers are overpriced, and I never buy them ($4.50 for Wizard Wolf, ouch). Others I'm willing to shell out for and I'm rarely disappointed.

Regarding Sawdust, I think they doing great things. On October long weekend they had 11 different beers in cans, 10 of which were all about $3-4 per can. Delicious too.

deepeary wrote:
I think we'd all be drinking a lot more Bellwoods if the prices were lower. But as has been said before, they have a tough time keeping up with demand and lowering prices would only exacerbate that problem.

The fanboys that are willing to stand in line in the rain and then shell out 12 bones for a 500ml bottle of mediocre/good beer are probably a reason they will continue to ride us with their pricing. Taking advantage of your customers with exorbitant pricing is the not the only way to expand your business in order to meet demand.

deepeary wrote:

-Liam- wrote:My original point is that I would be willing to support them a bit more if their price point was realistic.

I think we'd all be drinking a lot more Bellwoods if the prices were lower. But as has been said before, they have a tough time keeping up with demand and lowering prices would only exacerbate that problem.

I think some of their beers are overpriced, and I never buy them ($4.50 for Wizard Wolf, ouch). Others I'm willing to shell out for and I'm rarely disappointed.

Regarding Sawdust, I think they doing great things. On October long weekend they had 11 different beers in cans, 10 of which were all about $3-4 per can. Delicious too.

The only Sawdust I can ever find in the LCBO is Lone Pine and Golden Beach. Where are you finding 11 different cans? Downtown?

Bellwoods can indeed get a little pricy, but they're selling it, so good for them. Maybe after the production brewery is up and running they might lower a bit, who knows. I'm happy to pay $12 for something like 3 Minutes to Midnight.

-Liam- wrote:

deepeary wrote:
I think we'd all be drinking a lot more Bellwoods if the prices were lower. But as has been said before, they have a tough time keeping up with demand and lowering prices would only exacerbate that problem.

The fanboys that are willing to stand in line in the rain and then shell out 12 bones for a 500ml bottle of mediocre/good beer are probably a reason they will continue to ride us with their pricing. Taking advantage of your customers with exorbitant pricing is the not the only way to expand your business in order to meet demand.

Geez, what made you really dislike people who don't have the same taste as you?

honestly, a discussion on the mysteries of beer pricing in general deserves its own thread instead of derailing a bellwoods release thread on it.

i agree that bellwoods day-to-day offerings are overpriced, but their barrel aged stuff is right in line with industry averages. sure, hill farmstead has $10 usd 750ml saisons, but any of their year+ BA offerings or fruited sours explode in price ($30 for biere de norma, works of love SARA, etc, $40 for art, $50 for ann and flora cuvee). SARA's regular saisons are all $18+. jester king's generally start at $12 and go to $20. you've got cycle brewing and funky budhha (among many others) putting out $20-$25 BA stouts, hell goose island is charging like $60 for a 500mlish bottle of rare 2.0! really, i could keep going, but prices are all a combination of what it costs the brewery to make the beer, how much profit they want to get out of it, and what demand will support. these are all businesses and they need to hit that sweet spot of charging the most they can without pissing off their customer base.

so bellwood's pricing on their BA stuff is pretty good when i compare it to what i have to pay for stuff in the states and the quality (to my palette), is usually right there. i don't love or even like all their stuff, but on average their stuff is delicious and hits more than it misses.

nickw wrote:
Geez, what made you really dislike people who don't have the same taste as you?

Don't twist what I said. Don't be that person.

-Liam- wrote:

nickw wrote:
Geez, what made you really dislike people who don't have the same taste as you?

Don't twist what I said. Don't be that person.

I don't think he is twisting your words at all. I am one of those people who loves Bellwoods beer and who has waited in line to pay $12 per 500 ml bottle. I do so because, to me, it is worth my time and money to do so. To you it isn't. That's fair, we just have different tastes.

If you want to have a constructive discussion about the quality of Bellwoods beer, I would suggest you start by avoiding the term "fanboy". People like what they like and to many people (myself included), that includes most of what Bellwoods brews.

MeltedOzark wrote: The only Sawdust I can ever find in the LCBO is Lone Pine and Golden Beach. Where are you finding 11 different cans? Downtown?

It was at the brewery retail store in Gravenhurst.

deepeary wrote:

MeltedOzark wrote: The only Sawdust I can ever find in the LCBO is Lone Pine and Golden Beach. Where are you finding 11 different cans? Downtown?

It was at the brewery retail store in Gravenhurst.

Of course, silly me.

TheSevenDuffs wrote:

-Liam- wrote:

nickw wrote:
Geez, what made you really dislike people who don't have the same taste as you?

Don't twist what I said. Don't be that person.

I don't think he is twisting your words at all. I am one of those people who loves Bellwoods beer and who has waited in line to pay $12 per 500 ml bottle. I do so because, to me, it is worth my time and money to do so. To you it isn't. That's fair, we just have different tastes.

If you want to have a constructive discussion about the quality of Bellwoods beer, I would suggest you start by avoiding the term "fanboy". People like what they like and to many people (myself included), that includes most of what Bellwoods brews.

I admit 'fanboy' was probably the wrong term to use, I didn't mean it in a derogatory way (believe it or not).
I just think that if people continue to pay these prices then it could start a trend that is copied by other breweries that already have a fan base. They could think "Jeez, BW get the public to pay through the nose for their beers and people are literally lining up around the block to buy it. Let's stick another buck onto our offerings and get on that gravy train". This starts to ruin things for everyone.
GLB don't do that; They are selling Apocalypse Much Later Barrel Aged BIPA (10% ?) for $6.50. Their bottles of aged Porters and Stouts (650ml) are around 9 bucks. Yearly released and new IPAs 3.50-4 per can. People line up for these too and are willing to buy up the stock and yet they never get taken advantage of. I have more respect for the company that respects their clientele. I'm much more inclined to spend my loonies with those guys for what are also, I may add, more consistent products.