The Bar Towel

I posted on this particular thread to advise you that this particular establishment is rating poor reviews on a different forum:

Here's a better link to the thread.

This linked post is a complaint from a woman who went there for a bachelorette party??? Frankly I'm glad they didn't like it...there's plenty of Tipsy McStagger carbon copy resto-bars in that neighborhood that cater to the mainstream party crowd...feel free to get the bride in waiting drunk on shooters at one of those other places.

Seriously, I've never been a big fan of the food there and yes the service can be surly...but if they didn't have good beer I wouldn't go there either...but then I don't go to Milestones expecting to get a decent pint so...perhaps a little better party planning might be in order for these "chowhound.com" whingers.

I thought the best response was the guy who said "Maybe you should go to the other place with 30+ Ontario micros on tap. oh wait..."

As noted by others C'est What is known more for its wares and ambiance than its outgoing wait staff. I have also found that regulars/recognised faces elicit more response from some staff. That said some of the newer staff is both easy on the eyes and quite cordial

But whatever. You can be a good waiter/ress without having an ear to ear grin on your face. Really, if you serve my pint with skill and my food arrives promptly and tasty I don't really care what your demeanour is. If CW was some dive bar instead of a cozy establishment that would be called 'character'. Besides as with any establishment, the nicer you are to your server, probably the nicer they will be to you. I can't say I have ever really had cause to complain about my service at CW, or any of the better beer places in TO. At worst it is usually at least adequate.

also, i have bailed on many a place they tried to charge our large groups a $20+/person minimum on a Friday or Saturday night. Most good beer places (or non-chain restaurants for that matter) don't have such impositions.

PRMason wrote:JWalter, Christopher at C'est what has asked if I could supply him with Sgt. Major's Cask IPA. The beer engine that it would be drawn from is in for repairs, but once its back, look for some IPA real ale.

It would be a cool-ass thing to try Sgt as my first 'real cask ale.'

Make it so, number one... and I will treat my friends who work nearby.

The past couple of times that we've been to C'est What there is always at least one bad pint, just not fresh enough. Tonight it was the Wellington County Ale. Ick. I do think the two menus contribute to this problem.

My main gripe is: the table nazi. This winter there's always this guy-host who is really weird about seating people. If you say you're there mainly to drink, he'll put you at the bar, which isn't always good for groups. When I saw someone change tables a couple of months ago, he got into an altercation with this guy, and he ended up getting thrown out, with all sorts of swearing going on and intensity. Is this C'est What? or is this Bier Markt? What's going on? The first time I was at C'est What there were people smoking joints. (They were asked to leave, but nobody was swearing at them.) This is not the same place.

The table nazi is really intense and scary and not at all C'est What-ish. In the past, we've come to this place, to drink their tasty beer (best anywhere) and, well, we all know that after a couple of pints some yam frites or dijon chicken fingers are tasty, too, and we spend way more money than when we go, order dinner (to get a table) and then have our pints. When we're hungrier, we drink more. Weird. But true.

I just think C'est What is damaging itself by having this crazy door guy in two ways: one, having some weird enforcer confront you about your plans (usually hazy) about dinner when you enter; and two, by making it uncomfortable to hang out and take it easy, eat when you want to. after you've had a couple.

For me, the clientele has not seemed to change. It's the attitude. Which is a shame, because C'est What is the best place for a pint in this city. It's just not as good as it used to be, for no apparent reason.

My main gripe is: the table nazi. This winter there's always this guy-host who is really weird about seating people. If you say you're there mainly to drink, he'll put you at the bar...

Since you brought this up - a few weeks ago, I was there having a quiet drink in the afternoon. Someone was at the bar, and I was by myself at a table near the entrance. Otherwise, the place was completely empty.

At about 4pm, a couple of girls walked in for an after-work drink and a chat. They were met at the entrance, and told that if they didn't want food they'd have to sit at the bar. They looked round at the empty pub, and walked out.

For me, the clientele has not seemed to change. It's the attitude. Which is a shame, because C'est What is the best place for a pint in this city. It's just not as good as it used to be, for no apparent reason.

There certainly has been a change in attitude since the new bar opened, and I no longer go there in the evenings. Like most of us here, I really like the place, and I do appreciate the range of beers available, but that doesn't mean we should avoid criticism when it's appropriate.

Lubaka wrote:some weird enforcer confront you about your plans (usually hazy) about dinner when you enter; and two, by making it uncomfortable to hang out and take it easy, eat when you want to.

This is plain rude, and C'est What should know it. Are they not known as a terrific beer place, and do they not make money this way?

Why not tell him you want a 'menu' table and change your mind if you want. THAT is just protocol. If he got pushy about your food order, that would be a great time to get to know the manager.

Funny that we Canadians are supposed to be such non-vocal pushovers for the 'hospitality' industry, as if we must please the server somehow. They are not really in charge, and they must (be made to) know their place.

I have heard that their "food for table" policy has come about because of the popularity of the new Jamie Kennedy restaurant around the corner. Supposedly lots of people end up at C'est What while they are waiting for a cellphone call or page to let them know their table is ready at Jamie Kennedy.

I guess C'est What doesn't want these short-term patrons hogging the tables. I can't blame them, but it is definitely annoying to those of us who go to CW as a first choice.

The Rebel House has had this habit for a long time, and it is has affected my desire to go, unless I'm hungry. Nothing is more annoying than going to the Rebel's back patio on a nice day (with the full intention of drinking enough to make it worth their while) and getting denied a table.

antirealist wrote:At about 4pm, a couple of girls walked in for an after-work drink and a chat. They were met at the entrance, and told that if they didn't want food they'd have to sit at the bar. They looked round at the empty pub, and walked out.

The more reasonable course of action for the staff would be to nicely ask the girls to move to the bar later as the place fills up (provided there are seats at the bar available) and provide the reason for doing so. I don't think I would have any issues with that if I were in that situation.

Perhaps the owner needs to be made aware of this poor treatment.

I think the 'food for table' policy should be waived if I clearly express my intentions. Maybe next time any of us swing by we should request a table just to make a point.

Still, REALLY bad form, C'est what. You are a bar, sorry to point this out.

(I now wonder if a cheap food order is just the cost of giving business these days.)

And as for moving people to the bar as things fill up, no owner should ever want to do this, as it looks rude on them. That's part of the reason they can't yank away tables from 'space hoggers' who are just nursing one drink for hours.

Personally, I have no problem with restaurants requesting that patrons who are seated at a table make a minimum food order, as long as the policy is applied during a reasonable time frame (i.e. 5:00 to 9:00 PM, when they're most likely to have people coming in for dinner) and is posted or stated clearly & politely.

But from the sounds of it, C'est What (or at least some staff members) are just being assholes with little rhyme or reason. Pulling stunts like forcing people sit at the bar to have a drink in the middle of the afternoon when the place is almost deserted is absolutely ridiculous.

Cass wrote:I have heard that their "food for table" policy has come about because of the popularity of the new Jamie Kennedy restaurant around the corner. Supposedly lots of people end up at C'est What while they are waiting for a cellphone call or page to let them know their table is ready at Jamie Kennedy.

So there's a waiting list there but not a reservation list for dinner (confirmed in print and on Toronto Dining)?! It's not like there's much difference. That's one reason why I haven't been to JK yet. I refuse to wait in line for $$$ food. At least with cheap food I'm trading off my time for money.

Belgian wrote:And as for moving people to the bar as things fill up, no owner should ever want to do this, as it looks rude on them. That's part of the reason they can't yank away tables from 'space hoggers' who are just nursing one drink for hours.

I hate those space hoggers. They should be turfed out when the place is full and people are waiting to get in. If you want to nurse one drink for hours by yourself, do it at home!

The last three times I've been to Smokeless with my girlfriend we've only done drinks. We had dinner elsewhere first. We were in there for 1.5 to 2 hours and ordered usually four to five drinks each not of the cheap variety either. I consider that acceptable drinks only customer behaviour. I wouldn't even mind being nicely asked to move from the choicer bar seats to the back wall provided it wasn't near the door.

lister wrote:The last three times I've been to Smokeless with my girlfriend we've only done drinks. We had dinner elsewhere first. We were in there for 1.5 to 2 hours and ordered usually four to five drinks each not of the cheap variety either.

Joe's IS different, they expect people to focus on beer as a main course. The lofty beer pricing and limited menu selection are accordingly set.

I like that Smokeless Joe's know what they're doing, and aren't putting on airs like some snotty Bistro or whatever C'est What is pretending to be of late.