The Bar Towel

Dl expresses how I see it but I also feel the legitimate complaints of Jon and others on the board should be addressed, if only in the commercial interest of the organisers.

As for beerbistro and the awards on the 20th, I was at the previous beerbistro festival and I'll be at this one: it sounds great.

Beer is a big world, there's room for many views, many tastes.

Gary

Complain Complain Comlplain... people it’s a beerfest!!! I don’t know what most of you expected but it is put on for the masses. The people who put on this event do it as a job.....therefore want to make money at it.
As a beer geek myself I understand everything that is on this post but you all should be smart enough to know what an event of this size is going to be like. Now most of you have been before so you already no what it is like.

I see where you're coming from DL but we disagree on our definitions and purpose of a beerfest. I always thought it was an opportunity for brewers to get new people to try their products (much like any company uses samples or coupons) and to reward those already brand loyal. I do not think they view it as a money making opportunity and while I know it is expensive as hell to participate in and they would like to recoup some costs, the true value of having a presence at an event like this the long term repeat buyers that can be created and won over (especially important to a micro), not to mention the free exposure in newspaper write ups, etc. As others have mentioned, if you have been to other beer festivals (I don't know your personal experience), there is an entirely different feel, where it actually feels like the beers matters. At Toronto, beer is a peripheral object at best.

The people who put on this particular event though are The Beer Store, i.e. The Big Two, so no wonder it has a business/frat boy angle. What is sad is that this represents Toronto.

On another note, and to continue with all the marketing speak, the Ontario CraftBrewers really had a slick little computer booth where you could take your stamped card over for an opportunity to win prizes. This was a marketing effort worthy of the big boys and I congratulate them on it - I saw many many people going around trying Ontario brews because of it, which was the whole point, right? (not to mention the amount of market research info you needed to give just to enter). I hope those participating (well, the ones I like anyway ) will see the fruits of this marketing labour.

tupalev wrote: The people who put on this particular event though are The Beer Store, i.e. The Big Two, so no wonder it has a business/frat boy angle. What is sad is that this represents Toronto.

Actually I believe TBS is just a major sponsor, the fest is/was put on (i think) by Cottage Creek and events marketing company. That may have changed though...

Anyone else get a telemarketer call from having filled out the contest for the free hotel/trip thingy? Should have seen that coming I suppose...

I attended on Friday, it was great to see everyone, Perry from Scotch-Irish, Ken & Adrian from Black Oak, Jason from Cameron's, Greg, Joey Capps, Jon Walker, Dan-D-Man, also ran into some old (non BarToweler) friends, met some new ones, ended up drinking too much, but I think, perhaps, that prevents me from focusing on the negatives... I have to admit that while the presence of the MACRO's and the Alcopop's doesn't thrill me, I don't drink their cr@p, so I just walk on by and ignore them... I don't eat Mussels either, but hey if some other folks that like drinking beer do, then good for them... I hadn't noticed that water wasn't available, because I just kept drinking beer... Maybe that makes me a lout, but hey, I had a ball... I'm planning to make it out to the Golden Tap Awards, and plan to have a pub crawl that night, hope to see some of you out!

joey_capps wrote:And, they confiscated any bottles of water one might have brought along. I had two bottles on my backpack (as is my custom), and they wouldn't let me bring them in. In my opinion, the $2.00 charge for water actively discourages people from drinking water.

That is absolutely disgusting, and considering the heat, borderline criminal.



Bring on the Judge Fest, and I'll look forward to seeing my favourite brewers and BarTowelers there!

Andicus wrote:Bring on the Judge Fest, and I'll look forward to seeing my favourite brewers and BarTowelers there!

Is this coming up? Did I miss the announcement?

-Josh

Look for the Judge's BeerFest to be held on the first weekend in October.

Yeah, sorry. I just meant that it was the next event I would likely see everyone at. Although, it sounds as though some of us may be heading to Buffalo. Hopefully I'll make that, but I'm pretty sure none of our brewers attend that?

Jon Walker wrote: As usual I thought the festival was crap.

5) The general lack of beer knowledge at some (not all) of the booths. Many staff didn't know the first thing about the beer they were pouring, and I don't just mean the "jiggletenders"...several better run micros had staff working who couldn't even identify which beer was which after they were poured. When I asked two of the staff at the McAuslan/St.Ambroise booth if the vintage or scottish ales were ever coming back neither had ever heard of them.

Jon,
I just got to reading this now. While I do agree with you on many of your points you make regarding the festival, I do want to take note on one specific point you had made. I was there when you had asked the McAuslan/St. Ambroise booth when the Vintage and Scotch Ales were coming back. You had asked two of our volunteers the question who then turned to me for an answer. I had mentioned to you to perhaps next year. Unless you did not like my answer and went back to speak to two more of the fine volunteers we had helping us out (who also may not know of these products as they have not been produced in some time), to say the lack of beer knowledge was crap I feel is not a fair remark.
There are only 3 of us in Ontario who actually work for McAuslan. We try our best to be at all places at all times but alas our names are not Ken Woods (the hardest working man in the industry). With the help of the volunteers at these big events, we are able to provide the best service possible. We do feed them as much information as possible regarding our products but you have to admit, there is a limit.
In future, if you ever need any information regarding our brewery or products, I would be happy to answer all your questions. You can reach me at ashinewald@mcauslan.com

Cheers!
Andrew

Andrew,

While I appreciate your response it would appear you've taken personally a comment I made about the festival as a whole. The statement I made about your volunteers was true, neither of the nice folks on the front line at your booth knew about those two beers and had to refer back to you for clarity. This is understandable, and a minor example of the point I made that AS A WHOLE the volunteers at many (not all) festival booths had little to in some cases NO knowledge about the products of the brewery they were representing.

Fair enough that in McAuslan's case both the beers I asked about were no longer in production, but they weren't aware of them at all even though the vintage ale, for example, is still currently listed on your brewery website. I don't expect volunteers to have EVERY answer and I do understand that volunteers are hard to get but the various illustrations I mentioned were really intended to make a larger point which is...

To its ultimate detriment the Toronto festival is about consumption rather than information. The average attendee is only interested in drinking, in many cases purely to get drunk, rather than expanding their understanding of beer so most of the brewers dumb down the presentation by having ill informed and often scantily clad automatons doling out the suds. Should the festival cater to the frat boy mentality or is it guilty of perpetuating it? I simply feel it would be nice if the volunteers AS A WHOLE had a better general knowledge of the products they're representing. That way when someone does have a more basic and straightforward question than I might ask they will be given a useful and factual response. If the volunteers don't know what they're talking about then why should the public care to learn more and possibly change their perceptions, preferences and ultimately purchases?

But then again I think the Toronto festival is rotten from the head down. Sadly brewers like McAuslan/St.Ambroise who make quality beer are trying to make an impact in an enviroment where Brava had a bigger lineup than you guys most of the time.

Jon,
I agree with many of your points you make. My question I guess is was there ever a time when this festival was different from what it is today? Sure there is more glitz, but has the mentality changed over the years? I have only been a part of 3 or 4 of them so I cannot speak to any prior.
My point to you though Jon was simply to respond to your original message. You began:
"As usual I thought the festival was crap.
There's so much wrong with it I don't really know where to begin...but I'll try..." cut to the point you make about the beer knowlege and our booth. I was just trying to respond to your initial offensive. I do see the big picture you are talking about although I find it hard to lump us into "the brewers that dumb down the presentation by having ill informed and often scantily clad automatons doling out the suds" and as I do not want this to keep going back and forth as we agree on many other issues, but I will leave you with one question.
Had you been volunteering for us that weekend and someone came up to you and asked the same question you did...what would your response have been?

Cheers!
Andrew

and thanks for you kind comments and support for our brewery

All the glitz was at our booth baby! Photos on our back-drop downloaded from the internet, leaf hops in a plastic coca-cola glass for all to smell ( and eat in some cases), and two large breasted bimbos behind the booth, flasing ankles and ass. Okay, so the large breasted bimbos were Alex and I, but I must say that we both have bigger boobs than Debra Messing! Next year we will go all out and bring...a radio.

Shiner wrote:Jon,
Had you been volunteering for us that weekend and someone came up to you and asked the same question you did...what would your response have been?

I'm an outsider, not a brewery rep, so I only know what I read or have heard from reputable sources...as such if someone randomly asked me that question I would say; "I heard they stopped making the Scottish Ale several years ago as it wasn't selling as well as they had hoped so rather than rebrand it or devote extra marketing dollars to it they dropped it. Too bad as it was excellent and I hope they revive it. As for the vintage it was repeated for a couple of years and then inexplicably dropped. Why a brewer would not keep making such a splendid offering is beyond me but I guess they must have a reason"...which is why I asked at your booth for clarity around these two things.

If I did volunteer at the festival for McAuslan you can bet your ASS I would've done my homework and asked you and anyone else from the company as many questions as I felt I needed answered PRIOR to staffing the booth in order to properly represent your company. I wouldn't know it all but I'd be a damn sight better informed that most which from my perspective most Bartowelers are.

So in return I simply ask YOU this;
Did you or any other brewery rep from McAuslan's post a single thread on this forum asking for any of US to help volunteer at your booths? Did any of the other brewers and/or their employees who frequent here ask? Would it surprise you to know I for one would be HAPPY to spend a few hours one day manning a booth for a brewer (provided their products were ones I believed in)? How exactly did you find the folks who worked for you? Did you spend time training them on your business and products or just on how to pour the beers and collect the tokens? I can tell you without hesitation that at many booths the only concern was whether the young women passing out the beer had ample enough cleavage to distract passing men from the inferior quality of their products.

This line of thought ties into your other question which had to do with whether the beer festival was ever different than at is now...quite frankly it is getting progressively worse for all the reasons I've already stated in earlier posts. When you benchmark it against other festivals it ranks very poorly. THAT is the point. But ultimately it isn't likely to ever be a halfway decent event, by my definition anyway, so maybe it's best to just leave it be.

You guys make good beer, you try your best to market it as you are able and I respect that. I had the encounter I described at your booth and was dissappointed by it BUT this was only a VERY TINY nitpicky part of what made the festival sub standard as a whole IMHO.

Cheers,
Jon

Our volunteers are friends as well as a few of the kind folk who work at some of the local establishments around the city. We did not post any threads on here asking for help, but in future, when we need help, I will now knowing you may be interested in helping out.
I even promise to fill you in on as much info on the brewery and our products as I possibly can and that you are willing to take.
I hope all this back and forth has not left a bitter taste on your palatte Jon as I do not mean any ill will. If you have some time, perhaps we can put some closure to this all over a pint or two.


Cheers!

Andrew

No offense taken. I always appreciate a passionate, heartfelt exchange about good beer. Always one of the happiest ways I have to settle differences of opinion (and that is all they are) is over a pint or two. Love to raise a glass with you anytime...

Jon