Is that an official pint?

[Bobbyok]

Same stringent bottle-labelling rationale of the LCBO, applied to accountable sizing of pints.

But 'six pints' I was not citing a literal, personal example. (LOL This is just like the Ali G show!!) I mean a person (any person) could accidentally over-drink substantially more than they are used to, and as a result stumble into oncoming traffic or something tragic like that.

Again, this person stumbling into traffic did not LITERALLY happen. It is hypothetical scenario. The LCBO with its fussy labelling assumes we're too stupid to sense our level of inebriation so why not the LLBO with its pint sixing? The LLBO could make sure stupid people never receive larger than normally expected pints, which should please them very much in preventing mass death. (They would be our heroes!)

Simple question - how many of these places, hypothetical or otherwise, advertise that they sell PINTS, versus advertise that they sell a 12 oz class, a 16 oz glass, an 18 oz glass, or a 20 oz glass? If they all advertise PINT, then you may have a legit concern. Regulating that a PINT must be a certain size will not result in PINTS being 20 oz, it will result in the bar/restaurant changing it's menu/advertising/chalkboard to say we sell 16 or 18 oz glasses of beer.

If they specify the glass size in oz, ml, whatever, and customers still insist on asking for a PINT, then I ask, what's the server's response? Do they say nothing and just bring the big glass? Or do they clarify and say "the 18 oz?" or whatever large size it happens to be? If they clarify, as most in my experience do, then again it is the customer's unrealistic expectation to receive a PINT.

As I pointed out above, even the Industry standard bottle size sold at the LCBO (Pump House being sold at the LCBO, though my bottle was not) does not guarantee an exact measurement - even in a marked glass, that incidentally, was purchased from the LCBO (Corsendonck gift pack from a few years back). Standard bottle size still came up short.

And to clarify, because you seem to be changing your arguments between posts, are you arguing for a standardized glassware, standardized pints, or being sarcastic about all of this to suggest that other regulations are silly?

[Stevetut]

"Would you really want places like Volo, Beer Bistro, Smokeless getting rid of all their specialty glassware and serving you an Orval in a lager glass? Because that's the end result you're looking at with a standardized glass size."

It's not an issue with bottled beer poured into a glass or with a specialty glass being used with, say, a Belgian draft. It would only affect beers traditionally served by the 20oz. imperial pint. If a price is listed for a pint of beer, it should damned well be 20oz. in Canada - the way it is in the UK as well.

[Bobbyok]

"Would you really want places like Volo, Beer Bistro, Smokeless getting rid of all their specialty glassware and serving you an Orval in a lager glass? Because that's the end result you're looking at with a standardized glass size."

It's not an issue with bottled beer poured into a glass or with a specialty glass being used with, say, a Belgian draft. It would only affect beers traditionally served by the 20oz. imperial pint. If a price is listed for a pint of beer, it should damned well be 20oz. in Canada - the way it is in the UK as well.

Perhaps Orval was a bad example, but if an establishment can't use that specialty glassware for their taps, it is entirely possible that it disappears for lack of use.

Your second point is exactly what I'm getting at when I ask if the places people are complaining about are selling pints. If they don't advertise it as a pint, then no one should expect a 20oz pint (unless of course they're advertising a 20 oz size). Regulating it will only lead to places no longer using the word pint.

[cannondale]

If a price is listed for a pint of beer, it should damned well be 20oz. in Canada - the way it is in the UK as well.

You are absolutely right. That the consumer has the right to receive exactly that which they have purchased is clearly understood, and you will get no argument there.

The less clear argument is whether or not that is a right that we would like for our government to overtly protect by enforcing the use of standardized glassware for draft beer service in licenced establishments.

[Stevetut]

"Regulating it will only lead to places no longer using the word pint."

Why would this happen when the vast majority of pubs have always used the imperial pint, charge accordingly for it, and their customers expect it?

As far as the government enforcing the use of standard measure glasses -
that's exactly what the British gov't has done for ages. The Brits are grateful that it's enforced - it's to their benefit.

[cannondale]

As far as the government enforcing the use of standard measure glasses - that's exactly what the British gov't has done for ages. The Brits are grateful that it's enforced - it's to their benefit.

To surmise that this is the best solution to a complicated regional issue such as this, on the basis of anecdotal evidence no less, is demonstrative of the narrow-minded self interest often found amongst members of special interest groups. Perhaps once you've taken the time to perform just a little more than a perfunctory evaluation of the matter, you might arrive at a different conclusion.

[icemachine]

"Regulating it will only lead to places no longer using the word pint."

Why would this happen when the vast majority of pubs have always used the imperial pint, charge accordingly for it, and their customers expect it?

As far as the government enforcing the use of standard measure glasses -
that's exactly what the British gov't has done for ages. The Brits are grateful that it's enforced - it's to their benefit.

No need to enforce an official size - especially when there are so many beers in various packaging modes and sizes. What would be useful is requiring bars to list the serving size for each beer, in mililitres. Canada is officially metric and while Imperial units are nice in some regards, metric measurements would be perfect in such situations.

[Kel Varnsen]

How do most of the beer-centric bars in Toronto and other places do it now? I mean here is the beer menu of Pub Italia in Ottawa. They tell you the serving size, alcohol percentage and country of origin, on the menu of ever beer available. I am not sure why that would be such a hard thing for other bars to adopt.


http://www.pubitalia.ca/beer.html

[Belgian]

"Regulating it will only lead to places no longer using the word pint."

Why would this happen when the vast majority of pubs have always used the imperial pint, charge accordingly for it, and their customers expect it?

As far as the government enforcing the use of standard measure glasses -
that's exactly what the British gov't has done for ages. The Brits are grateful that it's enforced - it's to their benefit.

Clear enough. People expect the traditional pint, and don't like seeing anything smaller it its place. Regulate it.

[Bobbyok]

"Regulating it will only lead to places no longer using the word pint."

Why would this happen when the vast majority of pubs have always used the imperial pint, charge accordingly for it, and their customers expect it?

As far as the government enforcing the use of standard measure glasses -
that's exactly what the British gov't has done for ages. The Brits are grateful that it's enforced - it's to their benefit.

Clear enough. People expect the traditional pint, and don't like seeing anything smaller it its place. Regulate it.

I'm betting they don't. A pint is far more a standard measure in Britain than it is in Canada. People here ask for a pint based on it being the largest size glass, not on it being exactly 20 oz. Regulating won't work - except as another excuse to increase your taxes.

[mjohnston]

I'm betting they don't. A pint is far more a standard measure in Britain than it is in Canada. People here ask for a pint based on it being the largest size glass, not on it being exactly 20 oz.

I disagree. Don't assume people are stupid - do assume people are lazy. Most people realize that a "pint" is a measurement and will recognize when they get a smaller serving. They just brush it off; few people like to make a scene.

[Bobbyok]

I'm betting they don't. A pint is far more a standard measure in Britain than it is in Canada. People here ask for a pint based on it being the largest size glass, not on it being exactly 20 oz.

I disagree. Don't assume people are stupid - do assume people are lazy. Most people realize that a "pint" is a measurement and will recognize when they get a smaller serving. They just brush it off; few people like to make a scene.

I asked around for opinions on what specifically people expect when they ask for a pint when at the pub. Of the 15 or so responses I got, only two unequivocally stated they expect 20 oz. And the people I asked (many beer geeks) were people I expected to be the ones who care the most. Most of the remaining answers were 16 oz, some said 16 or 20, and one even said 10-12. Take it for what it's worth.

[Belgian]

I asked around for opinions on what specifically people expect when they ask for a pint when at the pub. Of the 15 or so responses I got, only two unequivocally stated they expect 20 oz. And the people I asked (many beer geeks) were people I expected to be the ones who care the most. Most of the remaining answers were 16 oz, some said 16 or 20, and one even said 10-12. Take it for what it's worth.

Well that changes everything. A pint is officially now 10 to 20 oz,. Why did I not get that before, it all seems so clear now... thanks!! LOL

PS: how many of them have a CLUE - do they even know what 16 vs 20 oz looks like - or are they just talking the shite? I mean if you handed them 20 oz would they say 'yeah, that's 16 ounces!' Or would they say 'yeah that's 10 right there!' 10 oz (everyone SHOULD know, at least for a visual comparison) is smaller than an everyday can of Coke.

10 oz! Any of the people you qoute who would think a real "Pint Glass" put before them would actually look SMALLER than a 12 oz can of Coke (!) might have a piss-poor grasp of things like ounce measurements, or severe cognitive problems. Why does their opinion matter, since they have no future in things involving measurements?

[monkeyflinger]

how many of them have a CLUE - do they even know what 16 vs 20 oz looks like - or are they just talking the shite?.... Any of the people you qoute who would think a real "Pint Glass" put before them would actually look SMALLER than a 12 oz can of Coke (!) might have a piss-poor grasp of things like ounce measurements, or severe cognitive problems. Why does their opinion matter, since they have no future in things involving measurements?

Can we kick out Belgian and bring back Rabbit? At least rabbit's posts were vaguely civil.

Belgian - posts like this are EXACTLY why the brewers of Ontario roll their eyes into the back of their heads when Bartowel comes up in conversation. Posts like this make us all seem like a bunch of frothing at the mouth zealots with nothing better to do than be obnoxious and nitpicky on the internet.

Get a grip FFS!

[SteelbackGuy]

how many of them have a CLUE - do they even know what 16 vs 20 oz looks like - or are they just talking the shite?.... Any of the people you qoute who would think a real "Pint Glass" put before them would actually look SMALLER than a 12 oz can of Coke (!) might have a piss-poor grasp of things like ounce measurements, or severe cognitive problems. Why does their opinion matter, since they have no future in things involving measurements?

posts like this are EXACTLY why the brewers of Ontario roll their eyes into the back of their heads when Bartowel comes up in conversation.

While that may be true, Bartowel is still an outlet where some of the CUSTOMERS of these Ontario Brewers like to discuss beer. If some of the Ontario Brewers are so quick to "roll their eyes", then I've got no problem avoiding their product altogether, and buy Rogue Brutal Bitter, Southern Tier IPA, Fuller's ESB, Aventinus, Hacker Pschorr, and many other world class beers.