The Bar Towel

GregClow wrote:

matt7215 wrote:part of me thinks the problem could also have been on the supply side.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

As many people in this thread have noted, sales of DFH60 have always seemed to be strong - but it has also disappeared from the shelves for pretty long stretches, suggesting demand was outstripping supply.

And based on the DDC feature and the improving quality of the seasonal releases, I'd say that it's pretty obvious the LCBO has a lot of faith in the popularity and sales potential of out-of-Ontario craft beer right now.

But hey, don't let that stop anyone from taking part in the usual LCBO-hating, Ontario-bashing, or conspiracy theorizing...

oh grag why are there so few of us??

Sad day for sure but not surprised.

matt7215 wrote:

GregClow wrote:

matt7215 wrote:part of me thinks the problem could also have been on the supply side.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

As many people in this thread have noted, sales of DFH60 have always seemed to be strong - but it has also disappeared from the shelves for pretty long stretches, suggesting demand was outstripping supply.

oh gag why are there so few of us??

Well that does add something to the discussion. Although I must say ST IPA can be gone for long breaks as well, no? It was nice that one could fill in for the other.

Too bad sales outstripping supply (if that's a cause?) is a problem for keeping this IPA in Ontario stores, I guess that's not a problem for the Buffalo stores if anybody misses it so they can hopefully still get it.

GregClow wrote:

matt7215 wrote:part of me thinks the problem could also have been on the supply side.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

As many people in this thread have noted, sales of DFH60 have always seemed to be strong - but it has also disappeared from the shelves for pretty long stretches, suggesting demand was outstripping supply.

And based on the DDC feature and the improving quality of the seasonal releases, I'd say that it's pretty obvious the LCBO has a lot of faith in the popularity and sales potential of out-of-Ontario craft beer right now.

But hey, don't let that stop anyone from taking part in the usual LCBO-hating, Ontario-bashing, or conspiracy theorizing...

AMen brother!
You could have stone brewing co. in the basements of bartowelers homes, and they'd still cry foul and complain there wasn't enough choice.


Hence my mustard thread........for those who were quick witted enough to actually get the joke.

Apparently Len has never experienced Kozlik's mustard in the St Laurence Market. This is ALL craft mustard in about 100 varieties (samples available for the tickers) and you realize how evil French's really is.

Belgian wrote:Apparently Len has never experienced Kozlik's mustard in the St Laurence Market. This is ALL craft mustard in about 100 varieties (samples available for the tickers) and you realize how evil French's really is.

Ohh I like good mustard, and I learned a lot from the thread. But its funny how most didn't catch on!!

Cass wrote:

heebes wrote:is there a way to voice our displeasure?

Leanne Rhee is the category manager for beer at the LCBO.

http://www.lcbotrade.com/pdf/Merchandis ... 202010.pdf

Leanne Rhee
Category Manager,
Beer & Cider
416 365 5889
leanne.rhee@lcbo.com.

Why not drop an email and find out what happened?

Why not phone her?

SteelbackGuy wrote:

GregClow wrote:

matt7215 wrote:part of me thinks the problem could also have been on the supply side.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

As many people in this thread have noted, sales of DFH60 have always seemed to be strong - but it has also disappeared from the shelves for pretty long stretches, suggesting demand was outstripping supply.

And based on the DDC feature and the improving quality of the seasonal releases, I'd say that it's pretty obvious the LCBO has a lot of faith in the popularity and sales potential of out-of-Ontario craft beer right now.

But hey, don't let that stop anyone from taking part in the usual LCBO-hating, Ontario-bashing, or conspiracy theorizing...

AMen brother!
You could have stone brewing co. in the basements of bartowelers homes, and they'd still cry foul and complain there wasn't enough choice.


Hence my mustard thread........for those who were quick witted enough to actually get the joke.

Actually, if we even had the selection available in a good Wegmans grocery store I'd probably be happy.

mintjellie wrote:

SteelbackGuy wrote:

GregClow wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

As many people in this thread have noted, sales of DFH60 have always seemed to be strong - but it has also disappeared from the shelves for pretty long stretches, suggesting demand was outstripping supply.

And based on the DDC feature and the improving quality of the seasonal releases, I'd say that it's pretty obvious the LCBO has a lot of faith in the popularity and sales potential of out-of-Ontario craft beer right now.

But hey, don't let that stop anyone from taking part in the usual LCBO-hating, Ontario-bashing, or conspiracy theorizing...

AMen brother!
You could have stone brewing co. in the basements of bartowelers homes, and they'd still cry foul and complain there wasn't enough choice.


Hence my mustard thread........for those who were quick witted enough to actually get the joke.

Actually, if we even had the selection available in a good Wegmans grocery store I'd probably be happy. Glad to know you think the LCBO has a fantastic beer selection though.

Nice post edit.........I caught it in time however.


Anyway, I've never said they have a fantastic beer selection and you state that I have said..........not once. I think the selection is only good. I've always maintained that. I simply realize the situation we are in and I don't think complaining about it every day on an internet chat forum ad nauseam, for 6 or 7 years, is an effective way of dealing with it. That's all.

SteelbackGuy wrote:

Belgian wrote:Apparently Len has never experienced Kozlik's mustard in the St Laurence Market. This is ALL craft mustard in about 100 varieties (samples available for the tickers) and you realize how evil French's really is.

Ohh I like good mustard, and I learned a lot from the thread. But its funny how most didn't catch on!!

I'm pretty sure everyone caught on, but it fell through because there is lots of craft mustard available.

SteelbackGuy wrote:

heebes wrote:DOGFISH HEAD 60 MINUTE IPA
LCBO 80143 | 6x355 mL bottle
PRODUCT DISCONTINUED*

very dissapointed this is being cut....better be bringing in another kind!
anyone else bummed, think it could just be backordered or is it really gone?

That sucks so bad, but the reality is that in my experiences, and they have been many, this was simply a dog product. And with the strong sales in southern tier ipa and likely more US micro stuff coming very soon, it was only a matter of time.

Obviously the DFH fanboys don't have either the commitment or the consumer numbers to keep it on the shelves.

GregClow wrote: But hey, don't let that stop anyone from taking part in the usual LCBO-hating, Ontario-bashing, or conspiracy theorizing

We're all aware that the seasonal releases are improving, and I've noted on BA that our regular access to Aventinus, Weihenstephaner, Duvel, etc. is better than some of the smaller provinces, but I'm increasingly sympathizing with the counterarguments that were directed my way when I made these points.

The fact that we have 13 million people with several large metropolitan areas but no access to even a limited range of IPAs, barley wines, sours, imperial stouts, and saisons is inexcusable. I also think Ontario brewers are partly responsible for this scenario since many of them have good, long-standing relationships with the Board (Mill Street, Trafalgar, Great Lakes), and can easily get their products listed, but choose to submit fruit beers and pale lagers as regular listings rather than well-hopped ales or experimental styles that challenge our palettes. In other words, the beers that are brewed and sold locally likely shape collective tastes and drive demand for certain types of beers, which is why more Ontario brewers need to make the interesting styles that will advance our beer scene further.

That being said, I don't believe OCBs brew mostly shitty beers and I rarely if ever engage in "Ontario-bashing." The talent clearly exists among brewers like Black Oak, Durham, and Beau's, yet most of their offerings are not available at the BO or TBS.

I have no problem admitting that my previous belief that 'we don't have it so bad' was an overly sunny and perhaps naive outlook of the situation in this province. I'm not sure people are 'conspiracy theorizing' so much as they are asking themselves why an excellent craft IPA gets de-listed despite strong sales (ostensibly) while several new Euro shit lagers (Ciuc, Grolsch Lemon, VB, Efes) are being added to the already robust selection of Euro shit lagers.

Perhaps the LCBO-bashing is "usual" because we have a truly bad scenario on our hands, and discerning consumers are fed up? People have a right to complain - preferably to the Board itself rather than on here - and I believe that demands for better craft beer, along with concrete financial support for existing premium brands, are the only reasons we're starting to see higher quality seasonal and limited releases. However, much of the regular listing stuff is unspectacular and that's why it's such a huge loss when something like 60 Minute gets discontinued.

Here's the response that a reader sent to me after corresponding with the LCBO. Nice of them to pass the buck. They know *exactly* why the product is discontinued, I really dislike this kind of vagueness.

Thank you for contacting LCBO Customer Service about Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA

The LCBO may decide to stop carrying the product due to a number of factors, such as production issues or sales expectations were not met. At the moment, there are no plans to re-introduce the product. However, you may wish to contact the agent representing the brand in Ontario to obtain more information.

Agent: Esprit Agencies
Phone: 416-762-4133

cratez wrote:The talent clearly exists among brewers like Black Oak, Durham, and Beau's, yet most of their offerings are not available at the BO or TBS.

I have no problem admitting that my previous belief that 'we don't have it so bad' was an overly sunny and perhaps naive outlook of the situation in this province. I'm not sure people are 'conspiracy theorizing' so much as they are asking themselves why an excellent craft IPA gets de-listed despite strong sales (ostensibly) ... much of the regular listing stuff is unspectacular and that's why it's such a huge loss when something like 60 Minute gets discontinued.

Great post Cratex, it was thoughtful fair and balanced and you did not just roll over to the usual Ontario Drone pressure to not speak up. I excerpted a few things you said that really hit me.

It's heart-breakingly unjust that MOST of our best Ontario-made beers are not sold in practically all the stores! Can you imagine going to say Germany or New York, and finding the really regional beers were kept out of the retail system by the big players? I don't want to paint an ideal picture of those places, but I really feel bad for our own best brewers and what they are up against - the rules of the game seem shitty.

And it's also interesting (paragraph 2) that your belief has changed, because (like you did) new people read this forum every day. Some of them will be curious what's going on on in the province so the discussion should be kept current. These new people are curious & will become tomorrow's consumers of craft beer. THEY will be pressuring / cajoling / begging LCBOs to bring stuff in, they will be supporting the LCBO's American and Ontario IPAs to boost sales numbers, they will be getting in on private orders and supporting the great beer bars we have. It SHOULD seem a great loss to us if DFH 60 is (presumably?) being blown out, since there is so little to take its place (unless you count fizzy water as beer.)

Belgian wrote: It's heart-breakingly unjust that MOST of our best Ontario-made beers are not sold in practically all the stores! Can you imagine going to say Germany or New York, and finding the really regional beers were kept out of the retail system by the big players?

But are these products being kept out by the LCBO establishment, or is it the brewers that are choosing not to submit their products to the LCBO? I mean based on a quick bit of googling there are 600+ LCBO stores. How many Ontario brewers could make enough beer, and could get enough trucks to put beer in every one of those stores? Probably maybe 2 or 3 of them I bet. There are a few GTA area brewers that don't even make it to Ottawa. Is that the fault of the LCBO or is that the brewers choice to concentrate on quality rather than making as much beer as possible?