Perspective on Ontario beer

[Cass]

It's also quite apparent you will never give up your god given right to bitch about the LCBO.

Damn right! Without this we wouldn't have had nearly as much to talk about here over the years

[Tapsucker]

This makes me curious about something else. Some of our brewers have grown quite significantly and are even selling in other provinces. Are any starting to sell into the US market? If not, why? Do they not want to scale or is is too expensive or perhaps they feel they can't compete on quality?

It's fair to say, "I'm busy with my local success", but I'd imagine at least one or two would try to export. Perhaps other provinces are too easy pickings because of lack of choice in their markets.

It would be interesting to see if for instance the provincial government(s) saw brewing as enough of a strategic industry to encourage and help an export business off the ground. We know their laws have not favoured these indigenous brewers at home, but perhaps as export driven job creation they might want to get behind them. I seem to remember talk of craft beer being featured at some embassy events in the US, but I may be mistaken.

Unibrue were the only 'craft' brewers I remember selling in the US and they seem to have done well.

[phirleh]

Unibrue were the only 'craft' brewers I remember selling in the US and they seem to have done well.

Last summer when I was in Chicago, there were quite a few Charlevoix and Dieu du Ciel brews on the shelves too at Binnies.
Shelton Bros. distributes DDC in the states.

[ritzkiss]

Unibrue were the only 'craft' brewers I remember selling in the US and they seem to have done well.

St. Ambroise, Central City, Howe Sound and Hopfenstark have all made it to the States (or at least one or two) as well.

[sprague11]

I've seen Howe Sound bottles in Wisconsin as well.

Back on topic, Ontario (or at least pockets of Ontario) have become exciting in the last 2 years. Look at the way tempest flew off the shelves at Amsterdam. Great Lakes Project X bottles are always in high demand, and by the sounds of it 10BY was a hot seller at Black Oak as well.

We've gone from Tankhouse and limited distribution of Sgt. Majors to Mad Tom, Smashbomb and Boneshaker on LCBO shelves whenever you walk into an LCBO with Spearhead and (hopefully) Cameron's Rye PA on the way. And that's only Ale's.

Sure, we're not Michigan or California, but we've come a long way in the last 5 years. i think that is worth celebrating, or at least a tip of the hat to our brewers.

[phirleh]

I've seen Howe Sound bottles in Wisconsin as well.

Back on topic, Ontario (or at least pockets of Ontario) have become exciting in the last 2 years. Look at the way tempest flew off the shelves at Amsterdam. Great Lakes Project X bottles are always in high demand, and by the sounds of it 10BY was a hot seller at Black Oak as well.

We've gone from Tankhouse and limited distribution of Sgt. Majors to Mad Tom, Smashbomb and Boneshaker on LCBO shelves whenever you walk into an LCBO with Spearhead and (hopefully) Cameron's Rye PA on the way. And that's only Ale's.

Sure, we're not Michigan or California, but we've come a long way in the last 5 years. i think that is worth celebrating, or at least a tip of the hat to our brewers.

I would say so indeed, I participated in a BIF on Beer Advocate, and sent about 10 top notch brews from Ontario to someone in Montreal, he asked for another 12 Mad Toms too, he liked the selection quite a bit.

[TheSevenDuffs]

...he asked for another 12 Mad Toms too, he liked the selection quite a bit.

That's great to hear!

[cratez]

I don't agree with most of the comments on the first page. As someone who travels often within Ontario, the Great Lakes states, and Northern Florida, I think that our beer scene is advancing at an encouraging rate, but we're still 10 years behind the Americans. With respect to Gary's comment that Ontario's beer scene is "as good, maybe better" than most U.S. states, I'll buy that argument when:

- Our top crafters make regular production and seasonal beers that rival Three Floyds, Founders, Russian River, Surly, Bell's, and Cigar City, and put them in stores.

- Breweries take their very best one-offs and make them year-round offerings available in stores and on tap in multiple cities outside of T.O. (to match the style variation that you see in U.S. stores and bars).

- Toronto's beer scene eclipses comparably-sized American cities like Boston, Philadelphia, and Washington, and people on both sides of the border take "beercations" to Ottawa, Hamilton, and London rather than Milwaukee, Grand Rapids, and Asheville.

- The highest-rated Ontario beers on RB and BA's "Best of Canada" lists no longer rank below the lowest-rated beers on the American list.

- We have a solid brewpub or craft brewery in every notable Ontario city, as is generally the case in the Great Lakes states (even Erie PA, for instance).

- We start seeing Sour Fests the size of Session 99 or larger.

- Our liquor laws mimic those of many American jurisdictions, allowing for growler fills and beer-to-go at bars, private specialty shops, and the importation of virtually any beer (including draught) that agencies, stores, and bars can get their hands on.

- Our big city liquor stores stock hundreds or even thousands of micro beers rather than dozens.

- We have hotel beer bars, craft beer in gas stations, and respectable micro options at mainstream chain restaurants outside of Toronto.

- Breweries start to replace their mundane regular production retail offerings (Muskoka Cream, MS Stock Ale, Red Leaf) with Nelson Sauvin lagers, session-strength IPAs, and approachable Berliner weisses.

With all that said (see my post below)...

[cratez]

None of what I've mentioned above means we need to be self-hating downers who are ashamed of our beer scene. Ontario has progressed dramatically in the last few years and we've gone from being an undeniable backwater to a reasonably good place to have a pint. I'm particularly proud of the fact that:

- We now have numerous retail releases that we can confidently recommend to people visiting the province. Every time I drink a Boneshaker, Spring Oddity, Black Oak Saison (soon to be released), Mad Tom, or Netherworld, I make a mental note to mention them when the inevitable "What to drink in Ontario?" threads pop up on BA and RB.

- The number of quality Ontario micro draughts available in Toronto and a few major city bars has increased at a rapid pace, and style variation is slowly improving as well. Beers like Sawdust City Uranus, Spearhead HSPA, Great Lakes Bourbon Barrel Aged Porter, and Bellwoods Witchshark are demonstrating that our local crafters can brew some seriously awesome stuff.

- Bars and breweries such as Bellwoods, Bar Hop, barVolo, beerbistro, and The Only in Toronto, Gigs Grillhouse in London, Augusta's Winking Judge in Hamilton, and (I'm told) St. Veronus in Peterborough favourably compare to American brewpubs and beer bars. We're even starting to see noteworthy pubs in smaller centres like Bracebridge and Sudbury.

- LCBO releases keep getting better and our retail beer selection continues to expand as brewery features and new listings supplement seasonal releases.

- Our beer scene is full of friendly, eccentric, and extroverted folks who know how to have a good time without taking themselves too seriously. Many people have made connections on this site and elsewhere and some of us regularly meet up for pints when visiting each other's cities. Several breweries have gone out of their way to spread good beer across this province by accommodating bars that are way outside of their normal distribution range (Beau's being a prime example). In other words, the social aspect of our beer culture, and the strong relationships and camaraderie that comprise it, is really cool.

Look, I can understand that brewers and industry insiders are probably tired of hearing beer geeks reiterate the same condescending mantra about Ontario being inferior to the U.S., Belgium, and much of Canada. Brewing in Ontario is likely a thankless job and now that our crafters have stepped up their game I can see how many of them would resent comments that denigrate their efforts. But I think it's premature to infer that our beer scene "has arrived" and now compares to the truly great beer havens of the world. To me the more accurate perspective is what sprague stated above:

Sure, we're not Michigan or California, but we've come a long way in the last 5 years. I think that is worth celebrating, or at least a tip of the hat to our brewers.

[saints_gambit]

You realize that breweries in the states still have "boring" beers like cream ales, right? I mean, there aren't a lot of breweries whose flagship is a Nelson Sauvin lager.

Some of your stated goals will never happen. We're going to be successful in a different way.

[cratez]

You realize that breweries in the states still have "boring" beers like cream ales, right? I mean, there aren't a lot of breweries whose flagship is a Nelson Sauvin lager.

I was conveying the fact that many of the gateway/accessible/low alcohol offerings from U.S. crafters are substantially more interesting than equivalent beers in Ontario (usually macro-esque pale lagers).

Some of your stated goals will never happen.

My post isn't a wishlist. It's intended to illustrate how far we have to go on certain fronts. I don't expect half of the things mentioned to come to fruition.

We're going to be successful in a different way.

And I welcome that.

[Kel Varnsen]

I think the closed system has allowed our brewers to catch up. If it was an open market there wouldn't have been seen nearly as many start-ups in the last decade. Many US brewers were already producing flavourful and consistent brews. Sure there would have been a few people that bought local, but I don't think Canadian brewing would have gained the same momentum..

.

I am not sure I agree with that. Since I think even if the ontario market had been completely open since say the 1980's I don't think there would be a ton of US craft brewers fighting to try and get a piece of that market. I mean other than I think Sam Adams, most US craft brewers aren't even close to being in all 50 states. So what motivations would there be for US companies to export their beer rather than go after market share in their own country?

[Kel Varnsen]

I don't agree with most of the comments on the first page. As someone who travels often within Ontario, the Great Lakes states, and Northern Florida, I think that our beer scene is advancing at an encouraging rate, but we're still 10 years behind the Americans. With respect to Gary's comment that Ontario's beer scene is "as good, maybe better" than most U.S. states, I'll buy that argument when:

Do you really think there would be any way that our beer scene could even come close to what they have in the United States? Their economy is more than 10 times bigger than ours which means there is more money to be made and more motivation for people to start up breweries (and more bars) to try to get some of that money. More money and more breweries in general means a better chance of brewers making really quality beer. It is pretty much the same as any other industry where more money to be made equals more competition and better products.

[cratez]

Do you really think there would be any way that our beer scene could even come close to what they have in the United States?

You raise a valid point in that 1) it may not be possible (due to our laws, restricted market, and smaller population); and 2) perhaps that shouldn't be the goal anyway (as Jordan seemed to infer). Like I stated above:

My post isn't a wishlist. It's intended to illustrate how far we have to go on certain fronts. I don't expect half of the things mentioned to come to fruition.

[markaberrant]

Cratez, I said Ontario has turned the corner, never said they are leading the race or have even caught up to the pack. Don't think anyone else is saying that either. It is good and it is getting better. Sure it is great to have lofty goals and to set the bar higher, but it is also foolhardy to always be complaining that things aren't good enough/aren't more like somewhere else.