The Bar Towel

icemachine wrote:Was going to put this in the Westy thread, but I think this one might be a better spot for it too

Westvleteren 12 sells out in four minutes at LCBO stores, but who really cares?

What drivel this is. There's a lot to discuss with this release, but it seems to bring out this already existing rage in some people that seems troubling.

JeffPorter wrote: What drivel this is. There's a lot to discuss with this release, but it seems to bring out this already existing rage in some people that seems troubling.

The guy's clearly got a chip on his shoulder for the LCBO. There are legitimate points to make against the Lickbo, but this Westy release isn't one of them (says a guy who missed out on it today and probably won't get any at all). He's just using it as an excuse to take his hobby horse out for a ride, and the article has his own 'quotes' highlighted; what a hack.

Cass wrote: Back on topic, I've said it before on BT somewhere but I'd love to see an Ontario brewer have a frenzy as DLD or Pliny Younger. The climate is definitely now ready for it - but in order for it to get really frenetic the media would have to get behind it.

I wouldn't want to see this at all. would it not incite profiteering(kijiji sales) and overall annoyance that would eventually lead to a shitstorm?

icemachine wrote:

Gedge wrote:I think there's a real opportunity for one of the local micros to build something akin to Dark Lord - something potent, exotic, one day only etc. Make it an "event" on a Saturday, bring in local artisanal food - lots of angles, really.

Tempest could easily be that beer. Haven't had the DL to compare it, but the hype around it, especially the BA release could easily be built up.

Or they could just keep releasing a couple batches a year and satisfying far more of their customers, and I know which I would prefer

I don't think Tempest is good enough to be that beer.

Sierra Nevada 30th Anniversary, Middle Ages Dragonslayer, St. Ambroise Stout Imperiale Russe, Olvisholt Lava, Nogne O, Brooklyn Black Chocolate - I enjoyed all of these much more than Tempest. And none of these are hyped up destination beers, though the Sierra Nevada was a limited one-off.

Peche Mortel, Choklat, and Mokah are all better, though it may not be fair to include flavoured stouts in the comparison. Sinha/Lion and Fullers Past Masters Double stout are light-years beyond Tempest, but using an FES for comparison isn't exactly apples-to-apples either.

Really telling though, is that something like Middle Ages Blackheart Stout blows it out of the water in terms of flavour, aroma, and feel. And Blackheart isn't even an imperial/double.

I'm not saying that Tempest is a bad beer. I enjoyed my bottle. And in the closed Ontario market, I would even consider making it a go-to when I want that sort of beer. But in an open market where it had to share shelf space with any on these other beers? It would be a one-and-done proposition.

Kel Varnsen wrote:I imagine the gift pack aspect, combined with the rarity and the story behind the production increased the hype. Heady or Pliny might be more desired by beer geeks, but unless they were released around christmas, in rare numbers with a gift pack, I don't see this kind of turn out just for bottles (or cans as it were). And even if they did release a rare christmas gift pack that they wouldn't have the great story about how the release is used to generate money to repair an 19th century monastery, which seems to be mentioned in all the media stories and certainly adds to the interest.

I think Kel hits all the points here. The 20 somethings* in line yesterday were all "Dude! The monks brew it!". There's a story behind it, that just isn't there with other beers.

Now if the LCBO stumble on several crates of this at the bottom of the sea,

http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2010/01 ... e-revived/

I could see it happening with that. Partly because of the story. Which, you know, when I think about it is kind of cool: Lining up for beer, not necessarily because it's the "best" but partly because of the story.

Cass wrote: Back on topic, I've said it before on BT somewhere but I'd love to see an Ontario brewer have a frenzy as DLD or Pliny Younger. The climate is definitely now ready for it - but in order for it to get really frenetic the media would have to get behind it.

This whole thread, and specifically this comment got me wondering, why don't more Ontario Brewers release gift packs? I mean the only one I can think of available this year is the one from King Brewery and other than that the only other ones I can remember seeing were from Steamwhistle or Mill Street. Why aren't more of the established/successful ontario breweries trying this kind of thing (beaus, Wellington, Great Lakes, Amsterdam). Sure it is probably a significant expense, with the amount of buzz that Best of Beau's 4 pack is getting, I bet if someone did something special (like a pack of Great Lakes 25th anniversary beers) in a cool box, with a free glass, it would probably sell like crazy.

Droogy wrote:

Cass wrote: Back on topic, I've said it before on BT somewhere but I'd love to see an Ontario brewer have a frenzy as DLD or Pliny Younger. The climate is definitely now ready for it - but in order for it to get really frenetic the media would have to get behind it.

I wouldn't want to see this at all. would it not incite profiteering(kijiji sales) and overall annoyance that would eventually lead to a shitstorm?

Set aside this kind of thing and think of the big picture.

I wonder if there would be a time where Ontarians and the media would put their frenzy behind something made in our own backyard?

As Torontonians we tend to not get excited about our own stuff as we do when we get something that others have validated.

Chris brought up an interesting one - what if there was Niambic Day, would the tickets sell out instantly and have lineups down the block, with articles in all the paper?

chris_schryer wrote:By the way, that NP article is brutal. Wandering, somewhat directionless and full of would-be hipster bitterness. The only thing worse was the comments. I'm glad it was in the Post!

Yeah... Terribly written articulation of poorly thought out ideas. There are a least a half dozen Toronto based blogs that are better written. I had a longer response ready but decided that forcing people to read the vitriol in my post would be almost as bad as reading that article. :shakes head quietly:

Just realized he quoted me in the article. I take it back, he is clearly of discerning taste. ;P

icemachine wrote:...I would not be surprised if the LCBO gets a ton of complaints from store managers and decides to stay away from these sort of products in the future.

That would be ironic!
- this 'sort of product' won't exist in the future
- the fiasco that ensued shows up all the weakness of the LC system, not a problem with the product!

... am I in the minority in not wanting anything like a DLD in Ontario? Do people actually enjoy this kind of hype? I just find it annoying, and get a bit out of joint with breweries who spin the beer buying experience around to the point that they're allowing us mortals to purchase their barrel-aged imperial sour old stouts.

Bytowner wrote:... am I in the minority in not wanting anything like a DLD .

Until I experience DLD for myself, it is hard to give a true answer to your question, but I certainly see your point.

That said, from a brewery's perspective, the hype works and it works well. Most people I have talked to (myself included) who have had Dark Lord agree that it doesn't really live up to the hype. Yet people still covet the beer, trade for it, travel thousands of miles to buy it on DLD and cellar it for future verticals. Hype works. Limited releases work. So, as annoying as these types of events might be to many of us, they are a necessity for a brewery to build their brand.

To be fair, the LCBO is full of incredibly bitter people, with a smattering of folks who genuinely love the products they sell. If the pissing and moaning of the majority had any sway on the decisions head office make, the LCBO would look a lot more like the beer store. We don't need to worry about complaints preventing the likes of Westy coming in. The hype surrounding it pretty much assures me that we will see another big release, though, as noted, it likely won't be as big.

Jer, maybe my review of the Post article was tainted by the lack of a Chris Schryer quote....

Oh, and regarding Tempest (and mintjelly, I'm not going after you specifically), I've heard a few folks "meh" at Tempest, to which I say, What?! Tempest is incredible; that Amsterdam let Iain make a full batch of it nearly made me fall off my seat. All I can imagine is that the blasé attitude towards it is based in a self-loathing Ontarian beer sentiment. I have had some huge roasty boozy stouts from a variety of brewers, and while I would never say I would pick Tempest as the top in any blind tasting, I would also never dream that I could pick it out for it's inferiority. It stands eye-to-eye with some of the best beers out there. And for real, if there are people who genuinely disagree, I think it would be interesting to source a few big comparable bottles, and organize a blind tasting. I'm sure we could pull together a few examples around here......

Right Chris. There are people who want you to believe Victory Storm King Imperial Stout is inferior now, too, and there seems to be this whole snob mentality that seeks to collectively denigrate and 'pull down' the status or popularity of some beers.

I say, keep your spiked Kool-Aid and your new Nike sneakers for yourself... I like Storm King just fine and you freakshows can't poison my appreciation of things.

I'm not "pulling it down" because it's common, or out of a self-loathing inferiority complex about Ontario beers. I listed numerous stouts that have been available to us in the past, many of which are easily available, that blow it out of the water. I even listed a non-Imperial that blows it away. I didn't say Tempest was bad, because I don't think it's bad. It's above average, it's good, it's pleasant, its enjoyable. It's all of those things. But it isn't great. It isn't incredible. There was no "wow" moment with this beer where I felt it even came close to living up to the hype it's been given on this forum.