The Bar Towel

Very happy for them.

Some of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

midlife crisis wrote:There seems to be a lot of hate for Beaus on this board, which I really don't get. Boston Lager? C'mon.

We're Canadian and self deprecating.

I don't get it either. I hope they dominate the NY market.

squeaky wrote:

Cale wrote:Looks like Flying Monkeys are already doing it down in Ohio - bottles and kegs.

http://www.cleveland.com/drinks/index.s ... g_mon.html
https://untappd.com/venue/194448
http://behindthetap.blogspot.ca/2013/12 ... c-ipa.html

Goodness. They compare smashbomb favourably to Zombie Dust?

Love it! Why not? We have been known to blindly idolize US beers (and others). Why can't it or shouldn't it happen to Ontario beers too. Good for them.

I have a theory - just coming back from Vermont I truly think their state's reputation in beer was because of Vermonters self-promoting and then the external market believing & following. Would be nice to see here too.

Cass wrote: I have a theory - just coming back from Vermont I truly think their state's reputation in beer was because of Vermonters self-promoting and then the external market believing & following. Would be nice to see here too.

I'm sure that there is an element of truth to that. The "Rarity" factor also plays in to the whole VT thing as you can't get Heady, HF or Lawson's outside of the state. That said, the beer is also phenomenal, so there is substance behind it as well.

TheSevenDuffs wrote:That said, the beer is also phenomenal

i feel like this is element thats lacking in the Ontario scene, we make a lot of good beer, but I cant think of a year round ontario beer that comes close to the quality of the breweries you mentioned

matt7215 wrote:

TheSevenDuffs wrote:That said, the beer is also phenomenal

i feel like this is element thats lacking in the Ontario scene, we make a lot of good beer, but I cant think of a year round ontario beer that comes close to the quality of the breweries you mentioned

Kind of besides the point. In Vermont, they praise their own stuff no matter what, to promote their own product. We just don't in Ontario. We're way too critical and as mentioned self-deprecating.

I would argue that there are beers that are worthy of the highest praise. Funny that it takes an American blogger to compare an Ontario beer to one of the most revered breweries in the U.S.

Cass wrote:

squeaky wrote:

Cale wrote:Looks like Flying Monkeys are already doing it down in Ohio - bottles and kegs.

http://www.cleveland.com/drinks/index.s ... g_mon.html
https://untappd.com/venue/194448
http://behindthetap.blogspot.ca/2013/12 ... c-ipa.html

Goodness. They compare smashbomb favourably to Zombie Dust?

Love it! Why not? We have been known to blindly idolize US beers (and others). Why can't it or shouldn't it happen to Ontario beers too. Good for them.

I have a theory - just coming back from Vermont I truly think their state's reputation in beer was because of Vermonters self-promoting and then the external market believing & following. Would be nice to see here too.

I think the promotion is a huge part of it. I mean there is no denying that there are amazing beers in Vermont. But I think also there are a ton of good beers whose reputation is probably better than it should be just because it is from Vermont. It is sort of a good reputation by association thing. And I think a lot of that is self promotion. I mean just look at the Vermont Brewers association website.

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Cass wrote:

squeaky wrote: Goodness. They compare smashbomb favourably to Zombie Dust?

Love it! Why not? We have been known to blindly idolize US beers (and others). Why can't it or shouldn't it happen to Ontario beers too. Good for them.

I have a theory - just coming back from Vermont I truly think their state's reputation in beer was because of Vermonters self-promoting and then the external market believing & following. Would be nice to see here too.

I think the promotion is a huge part of it. I mean there is no denying that there are amazing beers in Vermont. But I think also there are a ton of good beers whose reputation is probably better than it should be just because it is from Vermont. It is sort of a good reputation by association thing. And I think a lot of that is self promotion. I mean just look at the Vermont Brewers association website.

100%. Promotion plays a big part of Vermont's success, from their own residents to their VBA. And having been there a few times, I can safely say that they hype exceeds the beer.

What's funny is that Vermont & Ontario are unique in some ways beer-wise (obviously not population). Vermont has a mystique due to their beers being primarily only available in the state which heightens their desire. Is this not the same in Ontario? As I've said, Ontario is so insular that rarely do any beers leave the province (and many don't even get distributed around the province), yet the mystique isn't here. Which is why it's cool to see some of the Americans saying good things about the beers from here - to them it's something unique which they've never been able to get their hands on.

I don't mind people being critical of their beer. That should drive innovation and improvements.

I also think that Ontario lags behind a place like Vermont in terms of quality. If we were where Quebec is, maybe more self-promotion would be merited, but for the time being I'd rather brewers focus on getting high-quality brews out the door and consistently available. I mean if you head over to ratebeer and look up the best beers in Canada, the top Ontario offering is Flying Monkeys BNL Imperial Chocolate Stout at 31! On Beeradvocate it's Bring Out Your Dead (BA seems to have a lower vote # threshold, so some of the specialty stuff shows up) at 20.

It seems to me like Ontario is in a strange middle ground right now where brewers are starting to put out some excellent brews, but for whatever reason they're mostly specialty or one-off releases. When I think of all the really good Ontario beers I've had in the last year I come up with things like Bring Out Your Dead, Lake Effect, Tempest (especially the double), Three minutes to midnight and Old Kentucky bastard. Of that list only two were in the LCBO and both were temporary listings. To contrast, in Quebec you can find a handful of excellent DDC brews or a St. Amby pretty much anywhere. In Vermont Heady Topper is made year-round and really isn't that hard to get. If Ontario could even just manage to get a couple of beers like Lake Effect and Tempest widely and regularly available, it would probably help the local rep a lot.

I know it's been said to death, but ditching the beer store model would probably help a lot with that, as brewers could find markets for their special beers without having to go through the uncertainty and red tape of the LCBO or struggling to unload it all from their one shop at the brewery.

I should probably add that recent years have shown a lot of improvement in the stuff I'm talking about, so we might not be that far off. Amsterdam have started brewing their special stuff more frequently and have two locations you can get it at, Bellwoods is consistently churning out good beers, Black Oak got 10 Bitter years as a general list in the LCBO and some stuff like Mad Tom and Rhyme & Reason are providing a nice baseline for readily-available quaffable ales.

I think if you accept the premise that Ontarians are hyper critical of their beer, then you have to be mindful of the affect that has on RB and BA ratings when analysing rankings.

IMO a beer like Lake Effect is so enjoyable an IPA I'd have to have a Sculpin or Alesmith side by side with it to say for sure which i thought was best, so I think we're at least getting close if not equal in quality in some cases.

However, i don't think it's hypercritical to say that most ONT craft is fairly conservative / unexcting, just like the traditional social nature of this province; we ain't no California (yet).

midlife crisis wrote:There seems to be a lot of hate for Beaus on this board, which I really don't get. Boston Lager? C'mon.

This horse is well and truly beat, but I think it's a combination of, fairly, hit and miss special releases and, unfairly, disrespect towards kolsch as not a real beer drinker's style.

Also, Cass speaks the truth. How many waves of highly regarded US releases have we gone through at the LCBO that end up sitting on the shelves. It doesn't just go for beers either. Ontarians, and Canadians generally, go whacko for middling American retail and fast food chains that really aren't special at all.

squeaky wrote: I know it's been said to death, but ditching the beer store model would probably help a lot with that, as brewers could find markets for their special beers without having to go through the uncertainty and red tape of the LCBO or struggling to unload it all from their one shop at the brewery.

But there is another market, bars and pubs. I would be curious to know how many of these one offs from brewers like Great Lakes/Amsterdam/Bellwood make it to bars. That to me would be a fairly good indication as to what kind of demand there is for those products.

schomberger wrote:I think if you accept the premise that Ontarians are hyper critical of their beer, then you have to be mindful of the affect that has on RB and BA ratings when analysing rankings.

IMO a beer like Lake Effect is so enjoyable an IPA I'd have to have a Sculpin or Alesmith side by side with it to say for sure which i thought was best, so I think we're at least getting close if not equal in quality in some cases.

However, i don't think it's hypercritical to say that most ONT craft is fairly conservative / unexcting, just like the traditional social nature of this province; we ain't no California (yet).

ontario IPAs and APAs are where we are the stongest (who would have thought that 5 years ago?) but we dont have a world class example of any other style

if you had to send someone in the states a mixed 6 pack to highlight ontarios best beer, but couldnt include IPAs or APAs, what would you send?

matt7215 wrote: ontario IPAs and APAs are where we are the stongest (who would have thought that 5 years ago?) but we dont have a world class example of any other style

if you had to send someone in the states a mixed 6 pack to highlight ontarios best beer, but couldnt include IPAs or APAs, what would you send?

Black Oak Nutcracker
Amsterdam Tempest
Creemore Alt
King Vienna Lager
Great lakes No Chance with Miranda
Granite Peculiar