Bellwoods Brewery

[TheSevenDuffs]

Comparisions to the US is a bit tricky. It's not really apples to apples. The US has legislated separation between brewer, distributor, and retailer. Each player takes a cut which increases costs significantly.

And in Ontario we have excise taxes and 13% HST added to the cost of our beer.

[FEUO]

I don't disagree and was perhaps being a bit intentionally provocative. I am fully aware of the necessary price structure for BA beers, and gladly pay the going rate for Double Tempest, for example. And Bellwoods is, for the most part, great, don't get me wrong. But these last two releases that I referred to missed the mark by a wide margin, IMO.

Whereas I thought Double Tempest this year was their worst vintage to date. To each his own.
Since my preference is towards Bellwoods (as I've always enjoyed most of their offerings) they are more of a value beer to me than those who don't love their stuff.
As for their IPA's..... if I could get Stay Classy for $4 all year round that would be incredible.

As for DaveBar..... I gotta laugh.... when I hear "wine connoisseur" I always think of this vid:
https://www.facebook.com/ezraklein/vide ... 718848410/
Same rules apply to craft beer. Numbers mean little. One man's "Fat Bastard" is another man's "Opus One".

[Craig]

Lambda, for whatever reason, has always been the one to not sell out right away. I'm not really sure why, it's a great beer. Maybe because world class quads are actually something the LCBO stock at a great price?

I think it's just a style that people tend to not go crazy over (myself included). I enjoy Lambda, but don't need a bunch in my cellar. When it comes to cellaring beer, it seems that the most popular styles, by a long shot are imperial stouts (including barrel aged versions of course) and wild ales/lambic. Those tend to be the styles that most beer nerds hoard in their cellars.

People don't age quads? It's one of the best styles for aging!

[BakaGaijin]

Comparisions to the US is a bit tricky. It's not really apples to apples. The US has legislated separation between brewer, distributor, and retailer. Each player takes a cut which increases costs significantly.

And in Ontario we have excise taxes and 13% HST added to the cost of our beer.

Valid point. Our taxes are definately higher. I dont think that comes close to closing the gap on distributor and retailer margins though.

[Craig]

Taxes, outside of HST, are by volume in Ontario. This means that they're fairly large on every day beer, but much less significant on a 15$ bomber. It works out to 70-90 cents or so a litre for craft brewers iirc.

[TheSevenDuffs]

Lambda, for whatever reason, has always been the one to not sell out right away. I'm not really sure why, it's a great beer. Maybe because world class quads are actually something the LCBO stock at a great price?

I think it's just a style that people tend to not go crazy over (myself included). I enjoy Lambda, but don't need a bunch in my cellar. When it comes to cellaring beer, it seems that the most popular styles, by a long shot are imperial stouts (including barrel aged versions of course) and wild ales/lambic. Those tend to be the styles that most beer nerds hoard in their cellars.

People don't age quads? It's one of the best styles for aging!

I didn't say it's not a good style for aging, it's just not a style that people tend to go crazy about to hoard for their cellars. At least not the people that I know.

[TheSevenDuffs]

Taxes, outside of HST, are by volume in Ontario. This means that they're fairly large on every day beer, but much less significant on a 15$ bomber. It works out to 70-90 cents or so a litre for craft brewers iirc.

That's a good point.

[atomeyes]

I didn't say it's not a good style for aging, it's just not a style that people tend to go crazy about to hoard for their cellars. At least not the people that I know.

you haven't seen my cellar.

the amount of Roch 10, Orval from 2 years ago, St Berny 12 from 2 years ago and Chimay Blue (i buy 2-3 every year and cellar them) would make Esprit Agency blush

[atomeyes]

I really think there are a variety of factors why neither of those sold out quickly, but this whole argument about them being too expensive is rediculous. Value plays a big role in how I evaluate beers and decide whether I will buy them again, which is why I rarely will buy their IPAs. When Great Lakes is selling 30ml of beer for $1-$2 less for a similar product, I just can't be bothered to buy Bellwoods' IPAs. But as many have already said, $12-$13 for 500ml BA product is probably the industry average within canada and even the us. Maybe you don't buy a lot of BA beers in the states, but here is just a sample (all usd):

BA Narwhal 17.99 750ml
BCBS 9.99 500ml
Avery BA vanilla bean 13.99 650ml
Almanac farm to barrel 11.99 375ml
BA blackout stout 17.95 750ml

I could go on and didn't even bother listing breweries that are similar sized as Bellwoods who charge waaaaay more than the above prices (e.g., three Floyd's charges $30 min for any BA beer). BA beers are expensive, they have a large cost associated with them.

I'm not going to discuss quality or taste, because that's all subjective and really doesn't factor into the cost to produce the beer. I think the main reasons these aren't selling out in a day or weekend is that they've pumped them out too close together, they are not "traditionally" popular styles (same reason the wonderful lambda sat for 3 weeks), and canada just isn't in a frenzy for hoarding multiples of these for trading since these only have a niche trade market within canada, most people are not maxing out their allocation from what I hear/observed.

Trust me, this is coming from someone who likes a lot of their beer but thinks many of their brews are severely overrated.

Very intelligent post. We could use more of those on this subject.

exactly. well stated and, sadly, this post should be brought up when future bitch sessions happen.

to state that people didn't buy Skeleton Key because it's overpriced (it isn't) or because it tasted bad (how would anyone know? someone at the front of the line's opening a bottle, tasting it and giving his tasting notes to the crowd behind him??) is just absurd.

and the poster that used the XX Tempest as an example: that's one beer that doesn't taste overly great fresh. and people have lined up for it on the release date - without tasting it.

[midlife crisis]

to state that people didn't buy Skeleton Key because it's overpriced (it isn't) or because it tasted bad (how would anyone know? someone at the front of the line's opening a bottle, tasting it and giving his tasting notes to the crowd behind him??) is just absurd.

"Expensive", which it clearly, demonstrably is, is not the same thing as "overpriced". There are valid reasons why BA beers cost what they do. And sure, I didn't have the benefit of the guy at the front of the line passing out his notes, but I had the opportunity to buy one bottle, taste it, and decide not to return for another. Not that there was a lineup anyway, because there wasn't.

As far as Double Tempest goes, with the tasting bar setup they now have at the Leaside brewery, I did in fact have the opportunity to taste it before I bought. Thought it was great.

[BakaGaijin]

I really don't get what comparing beer prices to the US proves....not even sure it's relevant to anything. Rochefort 10 is twice as expensive in the US...yeah! What does that even mean?!?

[Belgian]

USA stouts? I think it's great if Bellwoods make comparable or better BA Stouts for equivalent pricing.

I could give a fart about the haters. Bring on Toronto's world-class brew pubs!

[atomeyes]

I really don't get what comparing beer prices to the US proves....not even sure it's relevant to anything. Rochefort 10 is twice as expensive in the US...yeah! What does that even mean?!?

Roch 10 isn't barrel aged.
2 month turnaround time.
so i'm not sure what your point is.

[Belgian]

Rochefort 10's low price at KGBO is a false economy anyway, we pay for it with poor overall selection, availability and service. Wrong thread topic.

[Coronaeus]

I recently had a bottle of the brett peach and apricot Monogamy that I've been sitting on for about 6 or 7 months I think. I really liked the way it developed. While the hops have faded, the beer has developed some great earthy flavours and the fruit has held up. I wish I had held on to a few more, and hope they do this, or something like it again.

And, to keep this on topic, I think this one was great value!