The Bar Towel

lister wrote: Oh and whomever submits Erdinger again for hefeweizen representation should be flogged. Bad importer! Bad!

Hey could be worse - the NSLC delisted Schneider Weisse from its general list and picked up Erdinger less than a year later. That's not what I call a fair trade.

Bobbyok wrote:Hey could be worse - the NSLC delisted Schneider Weisse from its general list and picked up Erdinger less than a year later. That's not what I call a fair trade.

No biggy for me. While I recognize Schneider is far better than Erdinger, I actually don't like Schneider Weisse. Of the generally available weisses at the LCBO I bounce between Paulaner and Hacker Pschorr when I'm in a weisse kind of mood, though I'm not entirely pleased with either. Oh Denison's-in-bottle-form, where for art thou? *sigh*

lister wrote:While I recognize Schneider is far better than Erdinger, I actually don't like Schneider Weisse.

Them's fightin' words!

lister wrote:Oh Denison's-in-bottle-form, where for art thou? *sigh*

Okay, we can be friends!

Rest assured, the LCBO is working hard on filling the upcoming spots for spring seasonal beers. You can expect to find at least 3 unique beers from your freindly Ontario Craft Brewers from what I've heard. We're working hard at Great Lakes to get our newest beer into the system in time for an early April release. We're pitching the yeast as I write this...more updates on our new beer as it starts to take shape. And no, it's not a pale lager!

lister wrote: Oh and whomever submits Erdinger again for hefeweizen representation should be flogged. Bad importer! Bad!

Erdinger hefeweizens don't shelve all that well...when they're fresh they're passable commercial hefes (light on the fruity banana/bubblegum esters) but when they are stale ( as most of the samples I've tasted from LCBO are), they are thin and flavorless.

If I were importing for this brewer I would pick the much tastier Erdinger Pikantus dark bock wheat beer to market here.

If they wanted to put a commercial German Hefeweizen with broad appeal and good flavor on the shelves they might look at importing Kaltenberg's "Konig Ludwig" hefeweizen or get some Edelweiss back in again.

why not the premium hefes like Weihenstephan or Andecher or Ayinger??

JerCraigs wrote: See, I don't think that would be good, because then it would not sell as fast and we'd get a lot of "just okay" bottles as they near their expiry that I was complaining about previously.

I bet it would sell just as well. It wouldn't sell out in the blink of an eye like it does when it's a seasonal, but it would still sell very well, especially in the GTA.

JerCraigs wrote: I definitely don't disagree with that. That said, I like the Stone IPA, or UnEarthly, or DFH 90 Minute more than the 60 Minute. Personal taste I suppose

I too enjoy Stone IPA, UnEarthly and 90 Minute, hell throw in the regular Southern Tier IPA, better than the DFH 60 Minute, but I'll take what I can get and the odds that those brews will make it to the "gummint dairy bar" (haha) are slim to none.

JB wrote:And no, it's not a pale lager!

Thank god.

I do pick up the hefe's from the LCBO, especially when I see a fresh shipment.

The problem is, wheat beers have one of the worst shelf lives... yet NONE of them make it into the refridgerated space. I'd buy more if I knew it was good. Sometimes they're even past their best before date (which I think is optimistic for a room temperature shelf).

Schneider, Hacker & Paulaner are all fine, but they are REALLY big brewers. I do really like the Franziskaner, which is also a big player (brewed by Spaten). I like a variety of the craftier stuff though... and I'd kill for Weihenstephan or Andechs.

As for the doppelbock, I'm just not a big fan of the Salvator. It seems to bridge the gap between dubbels & doppels, but comes up short on both accounts. Fresh on draft it's quite good (a little spicier), but it's probably even more alcohol-forward & lacking in malt character.

I am very happy to have access to the Aventinus though (at a decent price too). Again, I'd buy more if I knew it was fresh.

The LCBO doesn't refridgerate a heck of a lot... so one of the benefits of the seasonals is that you know it hasn't been sitting on the shelf (at room temperature under fluorescent lighting). Maybe in a box in their warehouse for a while... but not on the shelf for months on end.

Derek, you've always liked a good scheiss bier!


At my store, we refridgerate Chambly, Hoegaarden, and hacker. Its really up to the beer guy at the store.

A little off-topic, but does anyone remember that Hook Norton Haymaker stuff we got a few years back (Summer '04)? I thought it was pretty darn good. Anyone know who imported it, why it was never brought back?

shintriad wrote:A little off-topic, but does anyone remember that Hook Norton Haymaker stuff we got a few years back (Summer '04)? I thought it was pretty darn good. Anyone know who imported it, why it was never brought back?

A beer's quality has nothing to do with it being reordered by the LCBO. In many cases breweries have been fed up with getting one seasonal beer order and then being passed over only to be reapproached later on for another seasonal. Many breweries won't bother, once burned twice shy. Whether Hook Norton is one of those I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised.

We brought in the Haymaker from Hook Norton and finally, after 3-4 of years of trying to crack this market, Hook Norton threw in the towel as have many other UK breweries. None of them want one order every year or two with numerous labelling and packaging hoops to jump through. I've got a list of some 20 breweries that we have represented which no longer want to be bothered with Ontario. It's a shame but the LCBO does not truly offer any opportunities for most imported craft beers to enter the market but rather teases them with these seasonals. Nothing's going to change unless the government allows some private retail other than the cost-prohibitive Beer Store and that's just not in the cards.

esprit wrote:We brought in the Haymaker from Hook Norton and finally, after 3-4 of years of trying to crack this market, Hook Norton threw in the towel as have many other UK breweries. None of them want one order every year or two with numerous labelling and packaging hoops to jump through. I've got a list of some 20 breweries that we have represented which no longer want to be bothered with Ontario. It's a shame but the LCBO does not truly offer any opportunities for most imported craft beers to enter the market but rather teases them with these seasonals. Nothing's going to change unless the government allows some private retail other than the cost-prohibitive Beer Store and that's just not in the cards.

Thank you Peter...I feel vindicated for all the dead horsie whuppin' Ive done about the LCBO allowing private retail to carve off a specialty niche they are not propaired to take a risk on.

BTW I can feel your frustration from here and it's a lot more developed and justified than mine as a consumer.

SteelbackGuy wrote:At my store, we refridgerate Chambly, Hoegaarden, and hacker. Its really up to the beer guy at the store.

If only all the LCBO Beer Advocate's were so knowledgable & kind!

Looking back on my post, I should have said that Schneider, Hacker & Paulaner hefe's are all really GREAT (they're far better than fine when they're fresh). It's just that they're all from Munich, where the Hefe's tend to be a little darker & maltier. I think they lean towards more banana than citrus or pineapple flavour too. In my opinion, they're kind of between a Hefeweisse and a dunkleweisse... but certainly not scheiss!

In the heat of the summer, sometimes I like a lighter hefe with a little more citrus. I really like the local Wunder Weisse on-tap. I'd say Denison's is a little better, but it's closer to the Munich style.

Pootz,

Kaltenberg's "Konig Ludwig" would be good gateway bier. Personally, I don't think they're overly flavourful, so I wouldn't be willing to pay for it as a premium import. It could certainly have some appeal to the general public though (like SO MANY light lagers).

Weihenstephan, on the other hand, brews some really flavourful stuff that's insanely drinkable. They seem to have a decent capacity & their stuff is all over the states. I'd love to have it here. I think it's probably my favourite hefe... and their Korbinian is my highest ranked beer.

Derek wrote:Kaltenberg's "Konig Ludwig" would be good gateway bier. Personally, I don't think they're overly flavourful, so I wouldn't be willing to pay for it as a premium import. It could certainly have some appeal to the general public though (like SO MANY light lagers).

Yes..a standard commercial Hefe with all the right flavors but with a demure profile...for a wide variety of tastes...I suggested this as a better substitute than Erdinger to introduce the style to newbies.

Weihenstephan, on the other hand, brews some really flavourful stuff that's insanely drinkable. They seem to have a decent capacity & their stuff is all over the states. I'd love to have it here. I think it's probably my favourite hefe... and their Korbinian is my highest ranked beer.

yes it's all over the US...on tap in many better beer bars and available at pretty much any specialty liquor stores in the eastern states...massive penetration into US markets....I'm in awe it hasn't made it into Canada but from what Peter has said of the chicken shit orders and excessive administrative import demands from LCBO they may be just another successful German exporter that has decided to bypass the OLB BS to get restricted access to a small Canadian market when they are busy supplying a blooming US market.

And I agree, Weihenstephan heffe is the pick of the lot..world class and always falvorful.

I'm with ya... I gave Erdinger a 3.3 and the king a 3.55. To be fair, I haven't sampled either one fresh in the fatherland.

I'd love to try the Pikantus... though the Hacker-Pschorr Weisse Bock sounds even better (I was so sad when the Altes Hackerhaus didn't have any). By the way, if you're ever tired of the Bavarian food in Munich, there's a GREAT vegetarian restaurant just around the corner from the Hackerhaus.