The Bar Towel

Surely someone on this forum has a relationship with Esprit (Peter?) and can determine the reason it was de-listed.

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Belgian wrote: It's heart-breakingly unjust that MOST of our best Ontario-made beers are not sold in practically all the stores! Can you imagine going to say Germany or New York, and finding the really regional beers were kept out of the retail system by the big players?

But are these products being kept out by the LCBO establishment, or is it the brewers that are choosing not to submit their products to the LCBO?

I don't know (please enlighten me otherwise...) the 'choice' may be paying per-store listing fees OR a huge system-wide fee, so they are dealing with a rigid province-wide system which really favors large producers, and shuts out the brewer who makes low-volume specialty beers. Doesn't seem like there's the same hindrance in other parts of the world. Even if the SAQ in Quebec is shitty, it's really neat that any corner store in MTL can sell DDC and Charlevoix, and the brewers probably don't get raped in fees for every new beer they bring in so they can afford to sell the lower-volume beers and one-offs through the stores just as easily.

What's the point of trying to sell without any kind of real store? Maybe the point I was aiming for is clearer, feel free to correct me.

Ralphus wrote:Surely someone on this forum has a relationship with Esprit (Peter?) and can determine the reason it was de-listed.

I emailed DFH and got this response from Adam Lambert:

Thanks for the enquiry. Unfortunately with our continued demand we have had to pull out of Ontario until 2011. I will keep you in the loop as to when we can make it back in.


Cheers

Adam

Adam Lambert
Vice President of Sales
Dogfish Head Craft Brewery

I know they did a large expansion recently (delaying the output of their 120 minute this year), I think they even had to tear down the wall with the quotations written on them at the brewery. They probably had other markets with less red tape that they could sell more. It's sad.

It would have made for a great brewery spotlight, but I'm glad we at least got the first one for a Canadian brewery .

Huzzah.. an authoritative source.

well theres hope in Adam's response valid enough to expect Dogfish's return in a few months.
maybe the expansion will warrant an introduction for ON to the 90min..

SteelbackGuy wrote:

mintjellie wrote:

SteelbackGuy wrote:

AMen brother!
You could have stone brewing co. in the basements of bartowelers homes, and they'd still cry foul and complain there wasn't enough choice.


Hence my mustard thread........for those who were quick witted enough to actually get the joke.

Actually, if we even had the selection available in a good Wegmans grocery store I'd probably be happy. Glad to know you think the LCBO has a fantastic beer selection though.

Nice post edit.........I caught it in time however.


Anyway, I've never said they have a fantastic beer selection and you state that I have said..........not once. I think the selection is only good. I've always maintained that. I simply realize the situation we are in and I don't think complaining about it every day on an internet chat forum ad nauseam, for 6 or 7 years, is an effective way of dealing with it. That's all.

I edited it because I thought it was mean-spirited of me. This is going to sound very shallow of me, and it is, but sometimes when you post about the LCBO I read a defensiveness into it which probably doesn't even exist. Not knowing you in person and only seeing what you write on this forum, it's easy to forget that you love beer like anyone posting here. And really, employees like you within the LCBO are some of the best ambassadors for craft beer out there. You guys are in the best position to explain to the paying customer why craft beer is worth the cost of trading up.

mintjellie wrote:

SteelbackGuy wrote:

mintjellie wrote: Actually, if we even had the selection available in a good Wegmans grocery store I'd probably be happy. Glad to know you think the LCBO has a fantastic beer selection though.

Nice post edit.........I caught it in time however.


Anyway, I've never said they have a fantastic beer selection and you state that I have said..........not once. I think the selection is only good. I've always maintained that. I simply realize the situation we are in and I don't think complaining about it every day on an internet chat forum ad nauseam, for 6 or 7 years, is an effective way of dealing with it. That's all.

I edited it because I thought it was mean-spirited of me. This is going to sound very shallow of me, and it is, but sometimes when you post about the LCBO I read a defensiveness into it which probably doesn't even exist. Not knowing you in person and only seeing what you write on this forum, it's easy to forget that you love beer like anyone posting here. And really, employees like you within the LCBO are some of the best ambassadors for craft beer out there. You guys are in the best position to explain to the paying customer the world of flavour beyond Standard American Lager and make recommendations of good beers for them to try.

I appreciate your candor.
No need to worry though. This is an open forum and we can say what we feel! Sometimes I might mouth off and say something that would make a sailor blush!

Please do not mistake my "understanding" of our system or having to "work with the system" for defensiveness. It is just that after 6 years on this forum, I just get sick of reading the same complaint over and over. The same complaints I read 6 years ago, when the LCBO had essentially nothing to offer, are the same ones I read now, day to day, despite the selection getting 100% better........with many more improvements to come.

If you told me 5 years ago that we'd have ST IPA, DDC features, Norberro features, and essentially better seasonal releases every year, I'd say you were full of it. But we have been getting better and I do firmly believe that the LCBO is "listening" to us, albiet in a strange way that only the LCBO can do (so much red tape).

Yes, I do love beer just as much as everyone else here, except I work for "the devil" but at least I feel I make a difference on a daily basis (as I am sure many of us would).I appreciate your comments about me being an ambassador of beer, and believe me, if you come to my store, and strike up a chat, I'll have you leaving with a dozen craft beers even if you claim to hate the stuff.

I hate to see DFH 60 delisted. I really do. I also believe that the talk of production issues is accurate. It was so hard to come by, and even when I ordered it for my store, it would never come. I think the LCBO delisted it for that reason....and perhaps we'll see another beer from them soon.

phirleh wrote:

Ralphus wrote:Surely someone on this forum has a relationship with Esprit (Peter?) and can determine the reason it was de-listed.

I emailed DFH and got this response from Adam Lambert:

Thanks for the enquiry. Unfortunately with our continued demand we have had to pull out of Ontario until 2011. I will keep you in the loop as to when we can make it back in.


Cheers

Adam

Adam Lambert
Vice President of Sales
Dogfish Head Craft Brewery

I know they did a large expansion recently (delaying the output of their 120 minute this year), I think they even had to tear down the wall with the quotations written on them at the brewery. They probably had other markets with less red tape that they could sell more. It's sad.

It would have made for a great brewery spotlight, but I'm glad we at least got the first one for a Canadian brewery .

Good work on finding the answer - cheers!

phirleh wrote:Adam Lambert
Vice President of Sales
Dogfish Head Craft Brewery

GregClow wrote:

phirleh wrote:Adam Lambert
Vice President of Sales
Dogfish Head Craft Brewery

I was thinking the exact same thing!

In response to a comment I made on DFH Facebook site.

"Yes, but once we can make enough to satisfy our wholesale orders here, we'll be back!"

Ah... the LCBO.

I'm going to throw in my two cents.

They do carry a large selection of beer, and I suspect that a lot of what they carry is what sells well and what most people in Ontario want to buy. I find that my tastes aren't the same as your average Ontario consumer. I suspect as the tastes of the community shifts, so will what the LCBO carries.

I love the beers that come out of the American Midwest. Three Floyds, Founders, Goose Island, and Great Divide. I'm also fortunate enough to be in a position that I can go there, buy the beers I like and bring them home.

When the LCBO does come out with beers that I like I buy the hell out of them(ie DFH 60 min). I don’t think they are evil, I dislike how our liquor laws work in the province, and I wish retailers could import and sell whatever they wanted to. I don’t think this would lead to anarchy, riots, or a rash of alcoholism. I also strongly suspect that principle reason this doesn’t happen is because the LCBO make so much money for the province.

I love what this site and what people like Cass, Bobsy, GregClow, Steeleback Guy, etc do for Ontarians, they allow those that are curious about beer to learn what is out there, and about what to try, and really I think that’s where the real change is going to come from.

Weebay wrote:I find that my tastes aren't the same as your average Ontario consumer. I suspect as the tastes of the community shifts, so will what the LCBO carries.

Decades ago the wine market in Ontario was also really sad, and people's taste definitely advanced since then, so hopefully all these new craft, micro and rare beers have the same potential as VINTAGES wines did.

phirleh wrote:

Ralphus wrote:Surely someone on this forum has a relationship with Esprit (Peter?) and can determine the reason it was de-listed.

I emailed DFH and got this response from Adam Lambert:

Thanks for the enquiry. Unfortunately with our continued demand we have had to pull out of Ontario until 2011. I will keep you in the loop as to when we can make it back in.


Cheers

Adam

Adam Lambert
Vice President of Sales
Dogfish Head Craft Brewery

I know they did a large expansion recently (delaying the output of their 120 minute this year), I think they even had to tear down the wall with the quotations written on them at the brewery. They probably had other markets with less red tape that they could sell more. It's sad.

It would have made for a great brewery spotlight, but I'm glad we at least got the first one for a Canadian brewery .

Here is a recent blog from Sam Calagione at Dogfish explaining that they have been short on 60 minute in local markets as well. He even suggests that you "cheat" on your old fav. I also spoke with Esprit Agencies and you can still order 60 minute privately, though not sure how quick your order will be fulfilled. Definately a supply issue. If you're selling out in your home market, why bother exporting...

http://www.dogfish.com/community/blogfi ... rewery.htm

While it sucks either way, it is good to know the issue is that they didn't have enough capacity to keep supplying 60 min and it isn't that Ontario doesn't drink enough IPA.