"Faux Craft"

[Belgian]

... marketing firm is having a hell of a time selling a new seasonal from a big corporate brand. The problem is that their core drinkers reject the brand for being "fancy" or "craft" or what ever, and real craft enthusiasts reject it for being corporate.

Thoughts?

If the beer is actually any good, and the main brand really isn't, why not differentiate - introduce a new brand for the beer that IS good? That's justifiable.

I'm advocating 'craft branding' for beers that actually deserve it, even coming from a large company that generally makes bland, gravity-brewed & blended stuff to appease its main market.

[Mike-KBCo]

OK, but how is Mad & Noisy (referenced in Mike's original post) misleading people?

Their press release is on Creemore letterhead and don't look like they're trying to be deceitful.

Creemore has 'craft cred' but now that's under corporate ownership it seems like that's what's painting them in a negative vein. Not an issue of 'misleading-ness'.

And on another note, I'm very familiar with 'gypsy' and it's a hot trend in the U.S., in fact companies like Almanac play it up as an advantage, rather than hide it. I wonder if that strategy will catch on in Canada...

There are so many caveats, exceptions, explanations, etc. necessary with this subject. I haven't tried to paint things black & white, although the internet often portrays things as such.

What I can say is that we've embraced the fact that we brew at Wellington. We have a policy of transparency about this. It allowed us to get off our feet much earlier than we would have had we waited to build our own facility. Working with an award winning staff and brew master has been a pleasure, not to mention the best mentorship one could hope for.

[Belgian]

Not black and white.

Obviously there is a 'profit bottleneck' with brewing that (we could speculate) tempts anyone to make a faster buck with a lesser product. Even discussing 'craft beers' - we love to contend that this year's pumpkin ale was not as good as the first year version, and we suspect the motivation of controlling costs and/or grabbing more sales dollars by cranking out more units, faster.

Just human beings running a business, in every case. To whatever degree those cost considerations impact quality (or not.)

[Cass]

I don't think I've attempted to state that the issue is black and white. There's a ton of grey in this. But I still was still challenged that M&N was being 'misleading' and 'pretending' and that's clearly not the case.

They're being just as upfront that it's brewed at Creemore as Mike & KBC is stating they're brewed at Wellington.

[rejtable]

While everyone may be on the up and up in press releases and whatnot, the vast majority of beer drinkers don't read press releases.

To me, there is a difference (not sure how big or not, but still a definite difference) between a brewer who is brewing using other equipment out of some kind of necessity versus Molson/Creemore using a whole different label.

We give Molson/Creemore some slack because Creemore has some legit "tasty" cred, but I look at Labatt's and Shock Top at my local and I bet a massive percentage of the people drinking that beer at my local think it's some kind of cool craft thing.

Is it dishonest? Probably not, as I don't think anyone is actualy lying about it. But, there's a big difference between a Shock Top type thing and what KBCo or Spearhead are doing. Both as quality but also just from an operational point of view.

[Belgian]

...but I look at Labatt's and Shock Top at my local and I bet a massive percentage of the people drinking that beer at my local think it's some kind of cool craft thing.

They may also think it's vitamin water because it tastes like Flintstones.

[rejtable]

Hahahaha, the folks at my local aren't all that beer-bright, that would probably fit!

[JeffPorter]

...but I look at Labatt's and Shock Top at my local and I bet a massive percentage of the people drinking that beer at my local think it's some kind of cool craft thing.

They may also think it's vitamin water because it tastes like Flintstones.

Ha!

I've totally seen this (not the flintstones part, the first part!)

Sitting beside this guy at Bellwoods a while back, typical guys, just coming in from already having drank somewhere else, looking for something "light", and he's contemplated a Berliner Weisse - asks me if it's like Shock Top, because he loves that stuff.

I had half a mind to be like, "yeah, exactly like shock-top giv'r a go." But I didn't have the heart and/or guts.

[Kel Varnsen]

There are so many caveats, exceptions, explanations, etc. necessary with this subject. I haven't tried to paint things black & white, although the internet often portrays things as such.

If there are so many rules and caveats that you have to go through to determine if something is craft or not then I don't see the point and how it helps me (especially since it doesn't even guarantee I will get something that is well made and tastes good). I would rather spend the limited time I have in the LCBO browsing beer looking for stuff I might like.

[Bytowner]

I bet a massive percentage of the people drinking that beer at my local think it's some kind of cool craft thing

This confuses me. Who cares? Isn't the point of drinking "craft" mostly for the fact that it tastes good? Certainly the local thing and the community aspect factor into my decision, but if every micro brewery was making shtie beer, I'd stick with macros. If someone is drinking something they like, it seems really weird to get pissed off that they're drinking a pseudo-craft. I guess there's a bottom line at play, but it seems bizarre to be longing for drinkers who are more concerned about drinking "craft" than drinking good beer.

[JeffPorter]

And of course we all know that our concept of "good" changes.

And it's true. It's easy for me to laugh at the guy thinking a Berliner Weisse was like Shock Top, but maybe for him, Shock Top is a big leap from Budlight.

I guess trying to cash in on a brand concept isn't all that sneaky, especially if your target market is people who think Keith's is a fancy-pants beer, rather than losers like me, who obsessively check LC inventory for Twice as Mad Tom.

Perhaps we SHOULD be more concerned about large breweries doing real underhanded things to undermine, let's call them "independent", breweries.

Like, oh, I don't know, trying to get Beau's home-delivery program shut down. That's underhanded and deserves scorn.

[rejtable]

I bet a massive percentage of the people drinking that beer at my local think it's some kind of cool craft thing

This confuses me. Who cares? Isn't the point of drinking "craft" mostly for the fact that it tastes good? Certainly the local thing and the community aspect factor into my decision, but if every micro brewery was making shtie beer, I'd stick with macros. If someone is drinking something they like, it seems really weird to get pissed off that they're drinking a pseudo-craft. I guess there's a bottom line at play, but it seems bizarre to be longing for drinkers who are more concerned about drinking "craft" than drinking good beer.

All I meant was that, I bet a high percentage of people drinking Shock Top are buying as much because of the fad/cool/whatever factor as the taste. No different than many other lifestyle purchases... Abercrombie sweatshirts whatever. Maybe some/a lot of them actually like the taste, but I bet the image is as much a part of it (or more) than anything that is happening in their mouths.

I don't "care" what people around me are drinking (or wearing), except to the extent that, as long as they'll consume that swill the bar owner has less incentive to actually stock actual tasty beer.

I'm not taking a side pro or con this "faux" craft thing. I'm not even sure what the pro or con argument is all about at this point anyway. We seem to have a moving target

[markaberrant]

I guess there's a bottom line at play, but it seems bizarre to be longing for drinkers who are more concerned about drinking "craft" than drinking good beer.

Couldn't agree more.

Most people are very beer illiterate, and have also not bothered to train their palate. Just the way it is.

Had recent discussions this week with different people. One was with a big group of people, all from Regina. Our tap water has a lot of chlorine in it, and I won't touch it unless it has been carbon filtered. The water just reeks and tastes of chlorine. Nobody else had ever noticed it.

Another guy was telling me "all coffee tastes the same." I've had other friends tell me this too.

Then I was talking with some real beer geeks about a successful brewery that routinely puts out beer laced with diacetyl, and has an insanely successful seasonal offering sold at exhorbant prices, yet is absolutely disgusting by our tastes. The brewery has built an extremely good reputation based around the quality of their product, and it is only available in a relatively beer ignorant/beer starved community. As such, most of their consumers believe that anything these guys put out must be good, completely oblivious to to the fact that some of their beers are absolute garbage.

So yeah, most people drink a Stella or Shock Top or a Sleemans and think they are drinking good beer because that is what they have been told. I did some tastings at the Regina Public Library last month, and most of the people had no idea how beer was made or what the ingredients are, yet they have drank beer all their life. That's because the mass marketing of beer has never included anything about beer education or how beer should even taste. Pretty shocking when you think about it, but then how many people drive cars all their lives, yet never pop the hood? I'd be one of them...

But to get back on track, I really don't care what anyone else drinks. If someone is genuinely interested, I'm more than happy to share my knowledge. But I mean c'mon, my night isn't ruined if one of my coworkers orders a Bud Light, and I'm certainly not gonna make him feel bad by pointing out his poor choice of beer.

I'm not out to convert the world over to craft beer, and I really don't care if craft beer grows/flounders. This may sound contradictory from a guy that frequently does public speaking and runs educational courses related to beer, but in the end it's just a hobby. And I'll enjoy it whether or not anyone else does.

[G.M. Gillman]

Here is a different angle or thought, which is big brewers may want to place craft-style brewing in a separate unit because they are not sure where the market is really going. Why tie something new to your established brands and image unless you are very sure that craft sales are a permanent part of the brewing scene but also will grow to rival the mainline productions, i.e., be economically significant to you? That is why I think there is the distancing some here have mentioned (which clearly bothers some less than others), and not so much that mega-brewers want to latch onto craft brewing being hot and the latest thing. Or maybe it is a bit of both.

Also, I believe most regular beer consumers do know who produces what they drink. Servers will often tell them, "oh that new wheat beer you like, it is from Big Brewer Inc., it came in today with their other stuff". People know or find out.

I am all for brewers telling people who makes what in unambiguous terms, but at the same time I don't think people who regularly drink a brand will be unaware of its source ultimately.

Gary

[JeffPorter]

I really don't care what anyone else drinks. If someone is genuinely interested, I'm more than happy to share my knowledge. But I mean c'mon, my night isn't ruined if one of my coworkers orders a Bud Light, and I'm certainly not gonna make him feel bad by pointing out his poor choice of beer.

Mark I think that's true and probably most of us don't, but the question is, "Do you care about the 'identity' of 'craft'"? (I'm guessing, "not really".)

Because with due respect to Mike, unless I'm wrong, that seems to me to be the crux of the argument - not that others are drinking crap and we need to convert them, but that other's are drinking crap under the guise that it's something good and the label of "good" beer really belongs to "us". And that we need to protect the "craft" identity by, what, I don't know, laying out a set of criteria as to what's craft and what's not?

I couldn't care less about the identity of craft, because it's problematic just like most identities that claim to have "essential" attributes.

Is it an insecurity thing? Are we (beer drinkers and brewers alike) always looking over our shoulders to see what the big guys are up to? We all know that Barking Squirrel isn't as good as Mad Tom, so why are we worried about it?

It's certainly justifiable to be worried when a multinational buys a company like Creemore, but as far as I can tell, Creemore hasn't changed, only my own tastes have.

I hope more "big boys" come to Cask Days next year (with good beer, of course) not because it lends "legitimacy" to "craft", but because I'd like to think that everyone should be invited to the party.