The Bar Towel

matt7215 wrote:

schomberger wrote:I think if you accept the premise that Ontarians are hyper critical of their beer, then you have to be mindful of the affect that has on RB and BA ratings when analysing rankings.

IMO a beer like Lake Effect is so enjoyable an IPA I'd have to have a Sculpin or Alesmith side by side with it to say for sure which i thought was best, so I think we're at least getting close if not equal in quality in some cases.

However, i don't think it's hypercritical to say that most ONT craft is fairly conservative / unexcting, just like the traditional social nature of this province; we ain't no California (yet).

ontario IPAs and APAs are where we are the stongest (who would have thought that 5 years ago?) but we dont have a world class example of any other style

if you had to send someone in the states a mixed 6 pack to highlight ontarios best beer, but couldnt include IPAs or APAs, what would you send?

Assuming Imperials are out too, mostly stouts. BOYD, Double Tempest, Great Lakes 25th Anniversary stout, Kentucky Bastard. If I could bottle something I've only ever had on tap I'd toss in a Rye Peppercorn Saison from Amsterdam and I'd probably round it out with a Nutcracker.

^^Nutcracker, Tempest agreed. If you include King and Creemore, then you can include Beau's too.

matt7215 wrote: if you had to send someone in the states a mixed 6 pack to highlight ontarios best beer, but couldnt include IPAs or APAs, what would you send?

Muskoka Winter Beard
Muskoka Legendary Oddity
Muskoka Summer Weiss
Beyond the Pale The Darkerness
Flying Monkeys Netherworld
Great Lakes Miami Weiss

Make it only beers available through the LCBO and not a one off and not an IPA or APA

Gets more difficult


Black Oak Nutcracker
Amsterdam Tempest
Beau's Lug Tread
Creemore Alt
Denison's Weissbier
Great Lakes Miami Weisse
Grand River Russian Gun
Beau's Tom Green
Cameron's Obsidian

I think it's worth taking into consideration that we are comparing, for the most part, one province against a whole country.

If you were to make the best hockey team from NY to play against team Canada, they would lose. Take the best players from across the US and the playing field certainly evens out.

Same with beer. Of course our province isn't going to stack up very well to the world leading craft brewing country that has roughly 10x our national population, but when you look at our country as a whole, we definitely produce quality, world class brews, across a range of styles that are comparable to many US beers.

I'd throw Creemore Keller into the mix.

cfrancis wrote:Make it only beers available through the LCBO and not a one off and not an IPA or APA

Gets more difficult


Black Oak Nutcracker
Amsterdam Tempest
Beau's Lug Tread
Creemore Alt
Denison's Weissbier
Great Lakes Miami Weisse
Grand River Russian Gun
Beau's Tom Green
Cameron's Obsidian

That doesn't even move on a shelf in NY or MI.

The Tempest and Obsidian might move a little. Tom Green on his "cache".
The rest are gonna get dusty.

Now you guys are just being difficult.

FEUO wrote:The Tempest and Obsidian might move a little. Tom Green on his "cache".
The rest are gonna get dusty.

Except most good US craft beer gets dusty on US shelves too. It is worth noting that even with all the awesome beer they produce it is still a tiny share of the market. I mean when I was in Watertown last october there were bottles of founders and Sierra Nevada from 2012.

King Pilsner
Bellwoods Hellwoods
Grand River Russian Gun
Muskoka Harvest Ale
Denison's Weissbier
Creemore UrBock -- EDIT: scratch this for Amsterdam Spring Bock

Or several others mentioned above. There are many worthy contenders.

I though Matt's point was to try and put together a six pack of ONT craft that would impress our counterparts to the south, then realize how difficult that would be, especially if you can't include apa ipa iipa.

What I'm seeing, and obviously everybody has their own tastes/opinions, are a few (possibly) impressive beer amongst a lot of good (but average in terms of craft) beers, which supports the original point.

Maybe, but is King Pilsner not a really good pilsner, judged against other North American pilsners? Was Denisons not ranked for some extended period as the best Weissbier in the world? In a similar vein, I would put Hellwoods and Russian Gun up against most any RIS. And so on.

It is hard to "impress" some of you guys, IMO, because you are so focused on IPA, hop-forward beers.

schomberger wrote:I though Matt's point was to try and put together a six pack of ONT craft that would impress our counterparts to the south, then realize how difficult that would be, especially if you can't include apa ipa iipa.

It would be much MUCH easier to do it with Quebec beers even if you leave Unibroue out of it as well.

That tells you where Ontario needs to get to.

midlife crisis wrote:Maybe, but is King Pilsner not a really good pilsner, judged against other North American pilsners? Was Denisons not ranked for some extended period as the best Weissbier in the world? In a similar vein, I would put Hellwoods and Russian Gun up against most any RIS. And so on.

It is hard to "impress" some of you guys, IMO, because you are so focused on IPA, hop-forward beers.

Exactly, don't forget Neustadt won multiple medals at the US Open in 2011, finishing #8 in North America