The Bar Towel

spinrsx wrote:Bellwoods Brewery Jutsu
473 mL can | LCBO#: 16051
$4.50

Is it just me or is $4.50/can for a 5.6% ABV pale ale a little crazy. I know Bellwoods has always been a bit pricier, and in the past I saw the value, but I thought since expanding and introducing a canning line they'd be able to bring their prices down a bit. Perhaps it's the increasingly excellent competition, seems hard to justify buying this one often.

That said, I'll still buy 1 or 2 as it's been a while since I've had Jutsu.

seangm wrote:

spinrsx wrote:Bellwoods Brewery Jutsu
473 mL can | LCBO#: 16051
$4.50

Is it just me or is $4.50/can for a 5.6% ABV pale ale a little crazy. I know Bellwoods has always been a bit pricier, and in the past I saw the value, but I thought since expanding and introducing a canning line they'd be able to bring their prices down a bit. Perhaps it's the increasingly excellent competition, seems hard to justify buying this one often.

That said, I'll still buy 1 or 2 as it's been a while since I've had Jutsu.

Even IF what you say about production levels leading to lower costs is true, it does NOT necessarily translate to lower retail prices.
By all accounts, Bellwoods is still selling everything they can produce at $4.50 (before the hoppy bears go stale), why in the world would they lower that price? They are a business, not a charity!

When/IF the cans start to linger on shelves at $4.50 (i.e. supply > demand) then, and only then, would they even consider a lower price.

Ask yourself a simple question: if you had something to sell and someone offered YOU $4.50, would you say to them "no I only want $4.00 because my cost to make this one was $0.50 less than the last one i sold you last week"?

portwood wrote: Even IF what you say about production levels leading to lower costs is true, it does NOT necessarily translate to lower retail prices.
By all accounts, Bellwoods is still selling everything they can produce (before the hoppy bears go stale) at $4.50 each, why in the world would they lower that price? They are a business, not a charity.

When/IF the cans start to linger on shelves at $4.50 (i.e. supply > demand) then, and only then, would they even consider a lower price.

this is the most sensible post i have read on this forum in some time

matt7215 wrote:this is the most sensible post i have read on this forum in some time

Without insulting or impugning the person whose point they wish to critically and fairly address.

Screw you guys, I'm very mature.

I think you're being a little unfair to sean here. I didn't read his post as "why the heck is Bellwood charging these prices?!" but more like "How can I justify buying this at that price?" Of course Bellwoods will and should charge what the market will bear, but it's still fair to question whether that's worth it to you as a consumer. I'm not really planning to pick up any Jutsu at that price either, mostly because Great Lakes and Collective Arts are selling their just as good IPAs for a buck less a can.

portwood wrote:

seangm wrote:

spinrsx wrote:Bellwoods Brewery Jutsu
473 mL can | LCBO#: 16051
$4.50

Is it just me or is $4.50/can for a 5.6% ABV pale ale a little crazy. I know Bellwoods has always been a bit pricier, and in the past I saw the value, but I thought since expanding and introducing a canning line they'd be able to bring their prices down a bit. Perhaps it's the increasingly excellent competition, seems hard to justify buying this one often.

That said, I'll still buy 1 or 2 as it's been a while since I've had Jutsu.

Even IF what you say about production levels leading to lower costs is true, it does NOT necessarily translate to lower retail prices.
By all accounts, Bellwoods is still selling everything they can produce at $4.50 (before the hoppy bears go stale), why in the world would they lower that price? They are a business, not a charity!

When/IF the cans start to linger on shelves at $4.50 (i.e. supply > demand) then, and only then, would they even consider a lower price.

Ask yourself a simple question: if you had something to sell and someone offered YOU $4.50, would you say to them "no I only want $4.00 because my cost to make this one was $0.50 less than the last one i sold you last week"?

Thank you for explaining economics to me in an obnoxiously condescending manner, sounds like you took my criticism of their pricing a bit personally.

edit: I'll bite though. Yes, there is a precedent for reduced production costs leading to reduced selling costs. Being able to retail at a lower price point can help to increase sales volume, which would be in a business's interest especially if they can maintain a similar margin at a reduced price. Furthermore they're now entering their product into a much larger distribution channel that has hundreds of competitive products side-by-side on the shelves. Many businesses do market research and consider the selling price of competitive products; this allows them to be competitive and give their product a good shot at getting picked up over a competing product.

The Bellwoods name does have cachet, and I'm sure they know it, but I am curious to see how it does in a setting that is much different than their brewery shops.

Craig wrote:Screw you guys, I'm very mature.

I think you're being a little unfair to sean here. I didn't read his post as "why the heck is Bellwood charging these prices?!" but more like "How can I justify buying this at that price?" Of course Bellwoods will and should charge what the market will bear, but it's still fair to question whether that's worth it to you as a consumer. I'm not really planning to pick up any Jutsu at that price either, mostly because Great Lakes and Collective Arts are selling their just as good IPAs for a buck less a can.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was suggesting. Market forces or not, the pricing seems high to me. People are obviously willing to pay it, and I have no issues with that. I am curious to see if it moves as well at the LCBO for that price though, a lot more competition, and I imagine to the less engaged beer consumers they will likely grab the similar looking pale ale that costs $1-1.50 less per can.

In their email about Jutsu being available at the LCBO they did indicate that to ensure freshness, they will be making smaller batches and shipping smaller amounts more often, thereby increasing the cost of producing it to them.

I’d like to see Bellweiser be next. That said, the nearest LCBO to me is only about five minutes closer than the Hafis bottle shop, so I guess I want that for others!

seangm wrote:

Craig wrote:Screw you guys, I'm very mature.

I think you're being a little unfair to sean here. I didn't read his post as "why the heck is Bellwood charging these prices?!" but more like "How can I justify buying this at that price?" Of course Bellwoods will and should charge what the market will bear, but it's still fair to question whether that's worth it to you as a consumer. I'm not really planning to pick up any Jutsu at that price either, mostly because Great Lakes and Collective Arts are selling their just as good IPAs for a buck less a can.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was suggesting. Market forces or not, the pricing seems high to me. People are obviously willing to pay it, and I have no issues with that. I am curious to see if it moves as well at the LCBO for that price though, a lot more competition, and I imagine to the less engaged beer consumers they will likely grab the similar looking pale ale that costs $1-1.50 less per can.

of course the price is high
I for one will not be buying any (more). The price may have been '"reasonable" when they were only at Ossington and the lineups cleared stock within hours. Once the novelty wears, most people then start to analyse the value.
I'll bite at most beers even at arguably high prices, but having tried it, re-purchase becomes a more calculated choice.

Is Jutsu a great beer? Yes

seangm wrote:

Craig wrote:Screw you guys, I'm very mature.

I think you're being a little unfair to sean here. I didn't read his post as "why the heck is Bellwood charging these prices?!" but more like "How can I justify buying this at that price?" Of course Bellwoods will and should charge what the market will bear, but it's still fair to question whether that's worth it to you as a consumer. I'm not really planning to pick up any Jutsu at that price either, mostly because Great Lakes and Collective Arts are selling their just as good IPAs for a buck less a can.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was suggesting. Market forces or not, the pricing seems high to me. People are obviously willing to pay it, and I have no issues with that. I am curious to see if it moves as well at the LCBO for that price though, a lot more competition, and I imagine to the less engaged beer consumers they will likely grab the similar looking pale ale that costs $1-1.50 less per can.

of course the price is crazy high!
I for one will not be buying (more). I drove from Markham to Ossington about 4 years ago to buy a bunch of their overpriced beer because I read the hype and wanted to see/drink for myself. The price may have been '"reasonable" when they were only at Ossington and the lineups cleared stock within hours. Once the novelty wears, most people start to compare to other options.

Is Jutsu a great beer? Yes
is is worth $4.50 if you've never tried it? yes
is it worth $4.50 as a repeat buy? NO, there are cheaper alternatives that are just a touch "lower in quality" but much better on the value scale.
That goes for most Bellwoods offerings.

My guess is, 1) now that they have satisfied a large portion of the FOMO crowd with delivery, and the FOMO crowd not willing to pay an additional $15 to ship 9 bottles, can now buy from their local LCBO, soon enough their "higher quality" will cease to justify the premium price. 2) they won't be able to sell 5.6% pale ale for $4.50 at LCBO for long, unless they keep volume relatively low (to satisfy those that are not sensitive to price)

Long story short, I'm no Bellwoods fanboy, but not surprised they have not reduced their pricing in step with lower production costs

I recall a Hafis employee told me Bellwoods initially charged the same price for canned products that were previously bottled, but soon reduced them by 25¢ apiece.

portwood wrote:

seangm wrote:

Craig wrote:Screw you guys, I'm very mature.

I think you're being a little unfair to sean here. I didn't read his post as "why the heck is Bellwood charging these prices?!" but more like "How can I justify buying this at that price?" Of course Bellwoods will and should charge what the market will bear, but it's still fair to question whether that's worth it to you as a consumer. I'm not really planning to pick up any Jutsu at that price either, mostly because Great Lakes and Collective Arts are selling their just as good IPAs for a buck less a can.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was suggesting. Market forces or not, the pricing seems high to me. People are obviously willing to pay it, and I have no issues with that. I am curious to see if it moves as well at the LCBO for that price though, a lot more competition, and I imagine to the less engaged beer consumers they will likely grab the similar looking pale ale that costs $1-1.50 less per can.

of course the price is crazy high!
I for one will not be buying (more). I drove from Markham to Ossington about 4 years ago to buy a bunch of their overpriced beer because I read the hype and wanted to see/drink for myself. The price may have been '"reasonable" when they were only at Ossington and the lineups cleared stock within hours. Once the novelty wears, most people start to compare to other options.

Is Jutsu a great beer? Yes
is is worth $4.50 if you've never tried it? yes
is it worth $4.50 as a repeat buy? NO, there are cheaper alternatives that are just a touch "lower in quality" but much better on the value scale.
That goes for most Bellwoods offerings.

My guess is, 1) now that they have satisfied a large portion of the FOMO crowd with delivery, and the FOMO crowd not willing to pay an additional $15 to ship 9 bottles, can now buy from their local LCBO, soon enough their "higher quality" will cease to justify the premium price. 2) they won't be able to sell 5.6% pale ale for $4.50 at LCBO for long, unless they keep volume relatively low (to satisfy those that are not sensitive to price)

Long story short, I'm no Bellwoods fanboy, but not surprised they have not reduced their pricing in step with lower production costs

They explained that production costs are going to be higher now due to making smaller batches and delivering the beer several times a week to ensure the freshest product is on the shelves.

portwood wrote:....
Is Jutsu a great beer? Yes
is is worth $4.50 if you've never tried it? yes
is it worth $4.50 as a repeat buy? NO, there are cheaper alternatives that are just a touch "lower in quality" but much better on the value scale.
That goes for most Bellwoods offerings.......

Long story short, I'm no Bellwoods fanboy, but not surprised they have not reduced their pricing in step with lower production costs

I like Bellwoods too, they make some quite special beers but it's fair to say the prices do keep escalating. Would dropping the price of one beer at this point almost be too conspicuous among their general offerings?

Jutsu in 473ml cans is (by volume) only slightly cheaper than Godspeed Mine 355ml. And I've bought lots of Godspeed the last year or two because it's local, fresh and the quality is so high - I try not to think about the cost if I really like what I'm getting there. But if I lived by Bellwoods I might buy more fresh Jutsu or whatever.

portwood wrote:

seangm wrote:

Craig wrote:Screw you guys, I'm very mature.

I think you're being a little unfair to sean here. I didn't read his post as "why the heck is Bellwood charging these prices?!" but more like "How can I justify buying this at that price?" Of course Bellwoods will and should charge what the market will bear, but it's still fair to question whether that's worth it to you as a consumer. I'm not really planning to pick up any Jutsu at that price either, mostly because Great Lakes and Collective Arts are selling their just as good IPAs for a buck less a can.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was suggesting. Market forces or not, the pricing seems high to me. People are obviously willing to pay it, and I have no issues with that. I am curious to see if it moves as well at the LCBO for that price though, a lot more competition, and I imagine to the less engaged beer consumers they will likely grab the similar looking pale ale that costs $1-1.50 less per can.

of course the price is high
I for one will not be buying any (more). The price may have been '"reasonable" when they were only at Ossington and the lineups cleared stock within hours. Once the novelty wears, most people then start to analyse the value.
I'll bite at most beers even at arguably high prices, but having tried it, re-purchase becomes a more calculated choice.

Is Jutsu a great beer? Yes

I guess that was essentially my point. I too used to rush down to Ossington to buy their products at a high price before they sold out, but with their expansion to Hafis and now LCBO listings, I figured we'd into the "analyse the value" stage. Especially so considering Jutsu is one of their simpler core offerings.

Anyway, despite all this I bought a can today because it's been a while, and yes, it is a great beer from my memory. That said it'll probably be my only one.

Coronaeus wrote:They explained that production costs are going to be higher now due to making smaller batches and delivering the beer several times a week to ensure the freshest product is on the shelves.

I did come across that article, so I definitely respect that will add cost. Kudos to them for doing so since I see a number of higher priced cans languishing on the shelves, at least in some of the stores I frequent. Left Field comes to mind since they're similarly expensive, $4-5 range for a 355 ml.