"Faux Craft"

[chris_schryer]

I know people have alluded to "questionable business practices", and by no means am I pointing a finger at any specific brewery, but think about this:

M/C, ABIB et al have, let's say "aggressive" sales people who employ (sometimes) less than legal practices to secure a draught line in any given bar. Often this is at the expense of a micro who can't afford "marketing" for the bar in question. Now, we know that many bars are hip to this crafty craze, and wouldn't drop Black Oak Pale Ale for Stella, ever. But now Slick-shoes McGolfShirt wanders in with both a huge cheque for "marketing" AND a product that is identifiably "craft", whether it's made with 4 ingredients or 109. Suddenly it's a lot harder for the publican to hold on to that Black Oak line......

To me, there are two things that make a beer "Craft" at least in Ontario, and production capacity has nothing to do with it.

1. Craft beer is about what is in the beer (and what's not). Quality products made of quality ingredients.

2. Craft beer is about how the breweries operate as businesses. They obviously have to be in it to make money, but not at the expense of the environment, or their cohorts in the industry. Think about stories like Church-Key giving Beau's brewing space so they could make their targeted launch when their brewhouse got stuck in shipping. Have you ever seen sales reps from places like Great Lakes, Beau's, Wellington etc bump into each other at bars, or getting set up before events? They like each other. They help each other out. If they have a lead, they'll tell each other. They don't cannibalize draught lines.

So when I think about bigger brands starting "craft" labels, my biggest concern is how they are going to act as a business. Currently, most of the big guys, and some of the bigger "craft" brewers in the city, don't live up to my standards.

Sadly, as we've even demonstrated within a fairly small sampling of people (mostly) within a very tight niche, "Craft" means different things to different people. And because of this, we will never really reach a consensus of whether brand X is "craft" or not. "Micro" I think is a lot easier to deal with. Set a number and it's the standard. You make more than 30 000 hecs/year? You're not a micro anymore...... Now we just need to pick a number

[Kel Varnsen]

I know people have alluded to "questionable business practices", and by no means am I pointing a finger at any specific brewery, but think about this:

M/C, ABIB et al have, let's say "aggressive" sales people who employ (sometimes) less than legal practices to secure a draught line in any given bar. Often this is at the expense of a micro who can't afford "marketing" for the bar in question. Now, we know that many bars are hip to this crafty craze, and wouldn't drop Black Oak Pale Ale for Stella, ever. But now Slick-shoes McGolfShirt wanders in with both a huge cheque for "marketing" AND a product that is identifiably "craft", whether it's made with 4 ingredients or 109. Suddenly it's a lot harder for the publican to hold on to that Black Oak line......

When I hear things like that I don't know some of the times it bugs me. But some of the time I think, that is just how the business works, and the small ontario brewer probably new exactly how it worked before his started his business it seems strange to complain about it now.

Plus if you are going to complain about these kind of things, and then try to set yourself apart by making better tasting beers, it seems kind of backwards to then call out the bigger brewers for also trying to make better tasting beers.

2. Craft beer is about how the breweries operate as businesses. They obviously have to be in it to make money, but not at the expense of the environment, or their cohorts in the industry. Think about stories like Church-Key giving Beau's brewing space so they could make their targeted launch when their brewhouse got stuck in shipping. Have you ever seen sales reps from places like Great Lakes, Beau's, Wellington etc bump into each other at bars, or getting set up before events? They like each other. They help each other out. If they have a lead, they'll tell each other. They don't cannibalize draught lines.

I have often wondered how long this type of camaraderie can be maintained. I mean it is easy to do now when craft beer has such a small share of the market and if helping another company out expands that market share, it actually helps you. But as it expands and there is more money to be made, and people start spending serious advertising dollars I can easily see it disappearing. I mean Mill Street does radio commercials now, and Kichesippi sponsors radio contests.

[markaberrant]

M/C, ABIB et al have, let's say "aggressive" sales people who employ (sometimes) less than legal practices to secure a draught line in any given bar. Often this is at the expense of a micro who can't afford "marketing" for the bar in question. Now, we know that many bars are hip to this crafty craze, and wouldn't drop Black Oak Pale Ale for Stella, ever. But now Slick-shoes McGolfShirt wanders in with both a huge cheque for "marketing" AND a product that is identifiably "craft", whether it's made with 4 ingredients or 109. Suddenly it's a lot harder for the publican to hold on to that Black Oak line......

As has already been said, this is how business gets done, whether it is considered legal in the beer industry doesn't really make a difference to me.

Everyone jumps all over the brewery that offers compensation/incentives for tap space, but what about the publican? Why not go after them and tell them this is not acceptable? Easiest way to do this is by not frequenting these places.

If you like craft beer, and supporting craft breweries, why wouldn't you only frequent establishments that feel the same? Seems like a pretty simple solution to me, otherwise you are just being hypocritical.

And if the so-called REAL craft brewers are upset about faux craft, then do something about it. Market the hell out of what REAL craft beer is. And I don't want to hear whining about REAL craft breweries being too small and not having a marketing budget. Get off your asses and form a national brewers association for REAL craft brewers like the US has. You can even come up with your own little criteria for being part of your little private club/secret society. Or just continue writing confusing blog posts and preaching to the choir...

[markaberrant]

Also, I believe most regular beer consumers do know who produces what they drink. Servers will often tell them, "oh that new wheat beer you like, it is from Big Brewer Inc., it came in today with their other stuff". People know or find out.

I am all for brewers telling people who makes what in unambiguous terms, but at the same time I don't think people who regularly drink a brand will be unaware of its source ultimately.

Interesting observations Gary, but in my experience, this has not been the case at all.

[G.M. Gillman]

Mark, you could be right, and I am just guesstimating/using inferences. If any polling data exists on this question, I'd like to see it of course.

It just seems to me though that if someone buys a beer because they are interested in the notion of craft, they won't drink just one, they will try different ones. And sooner or later someone, a server, or friend, will tell them who makes it. E.g. someone brings a Belgian wit to a party hosted by John who likes Blue Moon. John thanks the guest and says, "That was interesting but I still prefer Blue Moon plus you can get it at a lot of places". The friend says,"Yes it's pretty good but did you know it's made by Molson Coors [or maybe MillerCoors will be mentioned], the big brewer?". I'd think that kind of thing happens a lot.

Also, if people stick just to one craft-style beer, say Blue Moon again in the States, you can argue craft has nothing or little to do with it anyway, they just like the taste and orange slice.

It's interesting to look back especially at U.S. brewing history. Even in the old days, there were repeated attempts to introduce fruit- or winy-tasting beers. There was Champale and Pink Champale (the brand still exists), there was a beer-and-Gatorade mix, and other kinds of flavoured beers. It didn't take off big time, but that was a time when wine consumption nation-wide was very small and people didn't experiment as much as today. Since the pop wine and wine eras began in earnest, people want to try different things and Blue Moon hit on a great formula and taste for this market. In other words, I think non-craft factors account for much of its success. Anyway, clearly this and similar beers have provided a gateway for many to the joys of true craft production.

Gary

[markaberrant]

I've had to repeatedly tell people that Blue Moon and Rickards White are the same beer, and that the majority of production is in Toronto (or at least was).

Last week, someone told me they tried a different Blue Moon (which do exist), so I asked which one? They told me "this one had orange and corriander."

People think Stella is made in Belgium, Keith's in Halifax, and Kokanee in BC.

Molson Pilsner is extremely popular in SK. Most people here think Pilsner is brewed here, even though the Molson plant closed over 10 years ago. Why would they think this? Because Molson markets it here as "a Saskatchewan tradition."

Unless you are a person that cares about food, how it is produced, and where it comes from, you don't pay attention to these things. Even people who appreciate good food often don't care about these things. I've particularly noticed a difference between the average craft beer fan (who just wants to drink good beer) compared to the beer geek/homebrewer (who needs to know everything about it).

[G.M. Gillman]

The Stella at LCBO is brewed in Belgium I believe.

Gary

[Belgian]

[Most people are very beer illiterate, and have also not bothered to train their palate. Just the way it is.

Selling some people on craft beer would be like getting them to buy hand-dipped matches. The generic commodity already does everything they want.

Fortunately for wealthy shareholders, a lot of our Canadian food production systems serve the same type consumer. So we have flavorless fake cheese, fake bread, plastic vegetables, and meats that are so heavily processed to be unrecognizable as such.

[Tapsucker]

First of all, I would like to thank everybody here for one of the more entertaining threads I have read in ages. Good debate with very little petty nastiness!

On the topic of Blue Moon, one of my business partners is a 50-ish man who never really drank much beer. It wasn't for him. On a trip to the states he got turned onto Blue Moon. When he came back he eyed my homebrew output and asked if I made anything like it. I don't. I'm just not a Belgian beer fan.

I offered him some of my heffeweizen, but that didn't turn his crank (probably because it just wasn't that good ). Recently he had some of my Master Bitter ESB, a pretty hoppy beer for a 'newbie'. Now he is walking into every bar sounding like a west coast IPA prick just like the rest of us. So I guess, chalk one up for Blue Moon as a gateway beer and thank MillerCoors for another convert!

[midlife crisis]

As has already been said, this is how business gets done, whether it is considered legal in the beer industry doesn't really make a difference to me.

Not merely "considered [il]legal in the beer industry". Practises like the one described above are illegal, full stop. As such they should be condemned by anyone who cares about craft beer.

[markaberrant]

Not merely "considered [il]legal in the beer industry". Practises like the one described above are illegal, full stop. As such they should be condemned by anyone who cares about craft beer.

Sure, we'll get Dudley Do-Right working on this pronto. There are a lot of laws which exist that are stupid, to say that they should all be upheld "FULL STOP" is absurd.

It's a common business practice in virtually every industry, why do some take a holier-than-thou attitude when it happens in the beer industry?

If you only supported craft breweries that never, ever gave away anything to their business partners you'd be drinking nothing but water.

[midlife crisis]

You think the Competition Act is stupid?

[JasonTremblay]

Molson Pilsner is extremely popular in SK. Most people here think Pilsner is brewed here, even though the Molson plant closed over 10 years ago. Why would they think this? Because Molson markets it here as "a Saskatchewan tradition."

I was in Regina last weekend and had one for my grandfather.

Ahhhh, memories.

And ... you know what? I've never had an undrinkably bad Pil (or Boh, for that matter), and I've had ... LOTS (like a hot tub's worth) over the years. I reckon that 1 in 15 craft bottles I've had have been fundamentally flawed (IPAs still in the BF range with no flavour, gushers, flat, diacetyl, band-aid, you name it).

/digression

FWIW, I'm OK breweries giving out swag -- buying some brand recognition through marketing is legit.

Buying taps and keg deals? Ugggh.

[midlife crisis]

Nothing wrong with swag, obviously. "A huge cheque for 'marketing' ..." was the scenario I was commenting on.

[markaberrant]

Why are "incentives" perfectly acceptable (and in some ways legislated as such) in every other industry? Even in liquor retail it is allowed (ie; buying a shelf cap, buying eye level shelf space, buying cold storage space, etc).