beerbistro Grand Opening on November 10th

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:00 pm

"Beer like water finds its level."!!? How pompous and demeaning. You would think that they wouyld send a critic who understands...or even likes...beer in all its forms. Shame on them.

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:25 pm

That's indicative of today's media giants, send a critic with a knife to a gun fight. The big picture has been sorely missed. We're not talking another new Thai restaurant or Sushi bar here, this is something completely different for Southern Ontario. With any luck, time will elevate Toronto to the Chambly of Upper Canada.

Slainte,
Jeff

[ This Message was edited by: gunny on 2004-01-10 13:36 ]

GregClow · Post by **GregClow** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:55 pm

The opening paragraphs told me all I needed to know about the reviewer's attitude towards the place...

"Howdja like ta crack open a cold one? Let's get us a two-four of brewski and settle down on the couch fer a while. Maybe even play a few gamesa caps in the commercials.

Such is the response of a foodie to the very idea of a restaurant called Beer Bistro that is dedicated to ale, lager and their close relatives."

Anyone who describes themselves as a "foodie" but retains such a close-minded opinion of beer doesn't deserve the title.

For what it's worth, some friends (including a couple of Towellers) and I went to beerbistro last night to celebrate my birthday, and we had a wonderful time. The service was attentive and well-paced, the food was delicious, and the beer... well, that goes without saying.

We were seated back by the open kitchen, which was a great place to be on such a cold night. Brian came out a couple of times to make sure everything was OK, and he treated us to some complimentary beer-bread pizzas to start the night.

Stephen was there as well, and came by the table to say hello and chat about some new beers that they'll be bringing in over the next few months.

Like others here have noted, the one complaint that might be lodged against the place is the noise level that's caused by the size of the room and the high ceiling. But that aside, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the place to anyone looking for a great meal, beer lover or not.

[ This Message was edited by: GregClow on 2004-01-10 15:56 ]

borderline_alcoholic · Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:23 pm

It is not even entirely a case of attitude, although obviously that is part of the problem. This entire review reeks of incompetence and displays a wilfull level of ignorance of the subject at hand.

Essentially, a reviewer without the first clue about beer has wandered into a place called the "Beer Bistro", where she is quite clearly out of her depth and demonstrates no interest whatsoever in doing the slightest bit of research nor even discussing the range of beer available. The review says far more about her dubious talents as a critic than it does the Beer Bistro and I would hope that it does not have too much of a negative effect on the business of the place. Certainly anyone with even a passing interest in beer (beyond getting drunk on mass market rubbish) would very easily dismiss her review as complete drivel.

[ This Message was edited by: borderline_alcoholic on 2004-01-10 16:35 ]

DukeofYork = Richard · Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:35 pm

Why doesn't someone strike back then, with a scathing letter to the Editor? ... although, being a pessimist, I imagine even the most eloquent and well-argued letter would be made the subject of fun ... what respectable person, after all, could take something as lowbrow as beer seriously?

SirIsm · Post by **SirIsm** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:47 pm

Yes...I risk being ostrasized from the board...but as I said back on Nov 14...the Beer Bistro still has kinks to work out with its food...yes...I love the beer selection (though still doesn't beat Joe's bottle selection)...but the food...especially at the prices they are charging...still needs work...the potential is defintely there...but not quite yet. Do I still go...yes...but the food is a secondary right now (except for those frites...which are decent)...I go for the beer and the atmosphere. I hope more than anything that they work out the food.

the.brewer · Post by **the.brewer** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:13 pm

While I agree with all the complaints from forum participants about Joanne Kates' review, I hope everyone realises that they are not dealing with an amateur here. Like it or not, she is probably the best known restaurant critic in the city, even the province. She can often be caustic but not half as bad as Jacob Richler, who is I believe Mordecai Richler's son. He writes for the National Post and can be really bad news. If you are familiar with Joanne Kates' writing, you may realise that she did not trash the beerbistro. If you read between the lines, there are many things that she liked about the place. (Too bad about the burger). I must say, however, that I do have a problem with her comments about beer in the first and last paragraphs. James Chatto of Toronto Life, who is quite a fan of beer, would not have dealt such low blows.
Michael

[ This Message was edited by: the.brewer on 2004-01-11 19:37 ]

Josh Oakes · Post by **Josh Oakes** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:13 am

I don't know if I agree with borderline on this one. Granted the opening and closing lines demonstrate total ignorance about beer, which for someone with an interest in flavours (not to mention a reputation) is akin to not knowing anything about spices, but at least when she wrote she stuck with what she knew.

Remember that fluff piece on Mill Street in the Star a few months back with the writer giggling "tee hee hee, this Organic Lager is clean, crisp and refreshing" or some drivel like that? No, I think it's better that if Ms. Kates wasn't able to sit down with Stephen Beaumont on her visit that she kept away from the beer writing.

That sort of thing is best left to those with an expertise in the area.

Mississauga Matt · Post by **Mississauga Matt** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:53 am

On 2004-01-10 22:13, the.brewer wrote:
.. but not half as bad as Jacob Richler, who is I believe Mordecai Richler's son.

Mr. Richler is indeed the son of the late Mordecai Richler.

I greatly enjoy his reviews in the NP, not so much for his culinary opinions - he often reviews restaurants I can't afford - but more so for his snobbishness. Make no mistake, he knows his food, but it's the way that he plays the aesthete that I find really entertaining.

He can be quite scathing in his negative reviews, but on the other hand there are times where he can be quite laudatory to a restaurant that he likes; if I remember correctly, he gave a very positive review to the P.J. O’Brien pub.

So there is hope for an establishment if they have their act together.

But I prefer the reviews of the people in the Toronto section of Chowhound ( http://www.chowhound.com/canada/boards/ ... ronto.html ). These are real average everyday folk with an interest in good food who give their honest no-strings-attached opinions of restaurants they’ve visited. A small discussion about the beerbistro has already been started there.

[ This Message was edited by: Mississauga Matt on 2004-01-11 00:54 ]

borderline_alcoholic · Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:01 am

I think my point is that a place calling itself the "Beer Bistro" is largely selling itself on its beer and a critic who does not appear to be familiar with beer at all and does not even discuss their range in any detail is not producing a worthwhile review of such an establishment from the perspective of an interested reader IMHO, hence my questioning of her competence in this review. It does not even appear that she has done the most basic level of research into the subject, which is something that I would expect from anyone writing a serious critique of such an establishment simply as a matter of basic journalism.

I have no doubts that she is a very well established critic and her comments about the food are probably fair enough, if unfortunate.

[ This Message was edited by: borderline_alcoholic on 2004-01-11 01:09 ]

GregClow · Post by **GregClow** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:07 pm

Like Josh & Michael, I didn't take any exception to the review from a food perspective, as Ms. Kates is a very well respected food writer, and her opinions in that regard were expressed very well.

I just found her opening paragraph to be extremely condescending, and sadly typical of the attitude that many so-called "foodies" (who also tend to be wine drinker) have towards beer.

At the very least, she could have mentioned that the menu includes a suggested beer for every dish, and perhaps she could have even tried a couple of the suggested pairings and commented on them.

The whole review just smacks of elitism, and holds an underlying attitude that no matter how upscale they try to make the place, it will somehow be inferior due to the beer theme.

borderline_alcoholic · Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:59 pm

Beer and wine drinking are not mutually exclusive.

And I still stand by my stance that someone without any knowledge of beer at all is not best qualified to review an establishment selling itself primarily on its beer. And if such shortcomings exist, then some basic research would at least allow that reviewer to comment on the extensiveness of the range and the styles available (which I still think is the absolute bare minimum which could be expected from a competent review of the Beer Bistro).

If such reviews are best left to beer writers, then one of their ilk should have been hired for this, ideally someone who also writes about food.

I also do not think that it would be appropriate for a reviewer to just sit down with Mr Beaumont and have him explain his range of beer, as he has a fairly obvious bias.

For a review of the Beer Bistro to have any credibility, it really needs to be done by someone independent of the place with an understanding of both beer and food.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:37 pm

I agree that fine wine, fine beer and fine food are not mutually exclusive. I am a certified sommelier ( I taught the Sommelier program at Algonquin College for 5 years) and I believe that beer is a much more complex and diverse beverage. At its simplest, each grape is its own winery possessing everything necessary to make wine. The winemaker needs only to guide the process and stop it from going too far.
A brewer has a cornucopia of malt and hop combinations, along with traditional flavouring agents, to choose from when concocting a recipe. This means that there are endless permutations and variations in beer. The real challenge is consistency. Whereas a winemaker can chalk up a mediocre wine to a poor vintage, a brewer has to make the same beer everytime. Craft beer drinkers are every bit as discerning as the best wine "connaisseurs" and they do notice even slight variations in a beer from batch to batch.
Food and beer are true companions. In "old country" brewing nations, beer is routinely added to recipes while cooking. Hop shoots are a delicacy in most hop growing areas ( you can get them from Puterbaugh Farms Hops Direct in Washington State). Any reviewer who looks upon beer as only the beverage for Joe 6-pack should also consider wine the drink of the wino under the bridge. I'm sure Joanne thought she was being cute in her story, but she really does a great diservice to the demographic that will make the Beerbistro the success that it will surely be. Just because you don't understand something dosen't give you the right to belittle it and those who support it. It betrays the narrow point of view that is all too common among "wine snobs".

the.brewer · Post by **the.brewer** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:47 pm

Well said Perry!
As mentioned earlier, a journalist who has equal respect for beer and food is James Chatto, but he writes for Toronto Life, not the Globe.
Michael

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:42 pm

I popped in Saturday afternoon to make a delivery and asked Brian what he thought of the review...they'd already had a lot of phone calls making reservations based upon the review...so that's that.