The Bar Towel

lister wrote:

midlife crisis wrote:But none of that is unique to Stone, is it? Why is Stone so much more expensive than other imports?

Because Capitalism.

An because Sciety.

I've had both the IPA and Arrogant in the US in places as lowly as truck stops and diners for less than $5 a 16 oz "pint". I think I recall having one in the $3-4 range last spring but that might be a delusional old alcoholic mind at work.

I'm pretty sure each location met the standards of refrigeration and line cleanliness, because the "pints" were superb.

This suggests to me, pricing isn't all about input costs, but more likely what margin a bar would expect and all those distribution and regulatory costs. Some of those US dives also drop their prices when a keg is not clearing out fast enough so there are inventory clearance deals to be had.

Here in Toronto if I were offered a 20 oz pint for less than $9, I'd be a customer, but anything else would skew me local. There are plenty of good beers to choose from.

I'm thinking this might be the beer snob equivalent of the yuppie Corona/Heineken tax. It will sell on brand and showiness and either go away or eventually just be priced like everything else.

Tapsucker wrote:I've had both the IPA and Arrogant in the US in places as lowly as truck stops and diners for less than $5 a 16 oz "pint". I think I recall having one in the $3-4 range last spring but that might be a delusional old alcoholic mind at work.

I'm pretty sure each location met the standards of refrigeration and line cleanliness, because the "pints" were superb.

This suggests to me, pricing isn't all about input costs, but more likely what margin a bar would expect and all those distribution and regulatory costs. Some of those US dives also drop their prices when a keg is not clearing out fast enough so there are inventory clearance deals to be had.

Here in Toronto if I were offered a 20 oz pint for less than $9, I'd be a customer, but anything else would skew me local. There are plenty of good beers to choose from.

I'm thinking this might be the beer snob equivalent of the yuppie Corona/Heineken tax. It will sell on brand and showiness and either go away or eventually just be priced like everything else.

but...no
how many US micros did we have on tap prior to 2015?
european micros?

atomeyes wrote:

Tapsucker wrote:I've had both the IPA and Arrogant in the US in places as lowly as truck stops and diners for less than $5 a 16 oz "pint". I think I recall having one in the $3-4 range last spring but that might be a delusional old alcoholic mind at work.

I'm pretty sure each location met the standards of refrigeration and line cleanliness, because the "pints" were superb.

This suggests to me, pricing isn't all about input costs, but more likely what margin a bar would expect and all those distribution and regulatory costs. Some of those US dives also drop their prices when a keg is not clearing out fast enough so there are inventory clearance deals to be had.

Here in Toronto if I were offered a 20 oz pint for less than $9, I'd be a customer, but anything else would skew me local. There are plenty of good beers to choose from.

I'm thinking this might be the beer snob equivalent of the yuppie Corona/Heineken tax. It will sell on brand and showiness and either go away or eventually just be priced like everything else.

but...no
how many US micros did we have on tap prior to 2015?
european micros?

If Ontario beer drinkers and bar owners perceive that Stone IPA is superior enough to the best Canadian craft beers available to warrant a 50% cost premium then Stone will be sustainable. But if consumers feel that the additional cost to wear the Stone Brewery badge is too much then it goes away. Stone are truly arrogant bastards in their pricing strategy in my opinion.

There are more options coming from the U.S. To Ontario in 2015 because American craft brewers have saturated much more of the American market in the past couple years. Bigger breweries have opened east coast operations and now have capacity. Competition is growing from many new breweries forcing prices and margins down in the US. The Ontario craft market is still underdeveloped, awareness of popular American breweries has grown here creating some demand and margins can be better than in their home market inspire of our perverted draught importing system. The American breweries are also lowering their,initially very high ,route to market quality control standards in order to enter the Ontario market. This would indicate they need more international markets to achieve their growth aspirations.

In what way do you feel they would be lowering their market quality standards?

Gary

So the prices on the stone have gone up I guess - was $485 before..?

Stone Arrogant Bastard Ale
Quantity: 1 × Keg 58600 ml Price: $509.35
Stone India Pale Ale
Quantity: 1 × Keg 58600 ml Price: $509.35

cratez wrote:According to The Beer Store website, both the IPA and Arrogant Bastard are $485 per keg.

Any guesses on what the average pint will cost? Probably safe to assume 12-14oz pours at most to keep the cost down.

G.M. Gillman wrote:In what way do you feel they would be lowering their market quality standards?

Gary

Stone and Sierra Nevada initially wanted refrigeration for product from their brewery right through to the consumers hands. This is not possible in Ontario for package or draught when importing into the province.

They have simply lowered their standards to the level required to be in this market as an import product.

Tapsucker wrote:...but that might be a delusional old alcoholic mind at work...

^ that might be a blanket disclaimer for the bar towel.

In the one single context where I've had Stone on draft here (Biermarkt Ottawa), I don't get the pricing fuss. Each were roughly $7 for a glass. I didn't have my Measurements Canada approved Pint Glass, but assume both were 16-18oz pours (they menu says 16 oz for IPA) Relative to the costs of other beers on tap there, I didn't see that as anything to get worked up over. They want nearly $7 for Mill St Meridian!!!

The Brewdog black IPA is well over $8 for just 14oz. Boneshaker is $7.50 for 18 oz.

rejtable wrote:In the one single context where I've had Stone on draft here (Biermarkt Ottawa), I don't get the pricing fuss. Each were roughly $7 for a glass. I didn't have my Measurements Canada approved Pint Glass, but assume both were 16-18oz pours (they menu says 16 oz for IPA) Relative to the costs of other beers on tap there, I didn't see that as anything to get worked up over. They want nearly $7 for Mill St Meridian!!!

The Brewdog black IPA is well over $8 for just 14oz. Boneshaker is $7.50 for 18 oz.

There is no pricing fuss for consumers if the bar owners absorb the extra cost of the product and don't pass it on as it appears many have been doing so far for one reason or another.

I don't see it being sustainable for the long haul for bars to absorb the roughly $150 per keg it is costing them not to pass on the cost . If they go through 2 kegs of Stone a week it costs them about $15000 in lost margin on that tap.

There are too many great beers available that cost much less than Stone for this to last very long imo.

TCB wrote:

G.M. Gillman wrote:In what way do you feel they would be lowering their market quality standards?

Gary

Stone and Sierra Nevada initially wanted refrigeration for product from their brewery right through to the consumers hands. This is not possible in Ontario for package or draught when importing into the province.

They have simply lowered their standards to the level required to be in this market as an import product.

I can see that as an ideal but thousands of outlets in the States sell these beers, is end-to-end refrigeration respected in each case? This seems unlikely. As long as the total time lag is within reason by the breweries' standards I would think the beers should be fine. Hopefully importers' creativity will reduce the time where the beers are exposed to unrefrigerated temperatures for too long. Both the Stone and SN seemed unaffected by any lack of chilling on the way to the tap, IMO.

Gary

or if price is a concern, drive to Buster Rhinos in Oshawa and grab a pour for $5.25 or whatever he's pouring at.

Finally had this yesterday at a BierMarkt. Price is $7.25 for a 16 oz pour (in a very unfortunate and clumsy shaker pint, but whatever) so that translates to about $9 per (Imperial) pint I suppose. Not out of the ballpark with other offerings on the BierMarkt menu, to be sure.

I enjoyed it. It has that very recognizable Stone house character that I would describe as kind of dank red grapefruit. A big, expressive IPA that immediately took me back to the few other occasions I've been able to have Stone on tap in the US. Not something I will seek out regularly, but that is just my taste.

I actually enjoyed the Sierra Nevada more (and not just for the far more elegant glass). There was an unmistakable sulfury or barnyard top note, presumably intentional, which was very reminiscent of draught Bass (in the good old days) and the other Burton greats. It was a very nice pint.

Happened to be at Against the Grain Leaside, where Stone IPA is also on tap. Had a "pint". Considerably more expensive here - $8.75 before tax for the 16 oz pour, or just a few cents under the ten dollar barrier inclusive of HST. Might be my last. (Sierra Nevada wasn't on but I was told its up next.)

They had Arrogant Bastard at the Wallace yesterday for $7.50 a pint. They were out of IPA, but they did have Sierra Nevada on tap too.