The Bar Towel

mintjellie wrote:

icemachine wrote:It's definitely different from the original Hefe-weiss, less body, almost into krystalweizen territory, doesn't retain a head or lacing even. The bubblegum and banana are still quite noticeable if slightly reduced. Its definitely not something I'll reach for frequently, but I'll probably grab a couple more over the summer. Nice to see they have moved away from those metal bands to anchor the swing top mechanism, will make it much better for reuse as homebrew bottle.

So wait - it's less cloudy? It's lighter in the mouth? The head retention is worse? It has less flavour?

In my opinion that pretty much covers it. But they improved the bottle so its not all negative

icemachine wrote:

mintjellie wrote:

icemachine wrote:It's definitely different from the original Hefe-weiss, less body, almost into krystalweizen territory, doesn't retain a head or lacing even. The bubblegum and banana are still quite noticeable if slightly reduced. Its definitely not something I'll reach for frequently, but I'll probably grab a couple more over the summer. Nice to see they have moved away from those metal bands to anchor the swing top mechanism, will make it much better for reuse as homebrew bottle.

So wait - it's less cloudy? It's lighter in the mouth? The head retention is worse? It has less flavour?

In my opinion that pretty much covers it. But they improved the bottle so its not all negative

Shhhh. You're not allowed to have an opinion here unless it is rose petals and unicorns. That much you can see from this thread!

SteelbackGuy wrote: Shhhh. You're not allowed to have an opinion here unless it is rose petals and unicorns. That much you can see from this thread!

And it's nothing personal! We're all habitual drunks here so we over-react in a cranky manner for no discernable cause.

Saw this at the LC, got excited because i like Weisse, then tried it and didn't notice ANY difference from the regular can. Even if they tweaked their recipe, I can't tell the difference, and I don't think it warrants being packaged as a "special" beer.

SO, I feel slightly ripped off. It's not because I can't afford to pay a buck or 2 more, but CLEARLY this re-branding is designed to influence customers based solely on the shelf appeal. I can appreciate how this would cheese some people off (Len), because while this is not an out and out dishonest move by Muskoka, it's certainly deceptive (at least to those familiar with the beer to begin with).

For Muskoka, business wise, i think this is a good idea. They WILL get more sales from people who have yet to try Muskoka product.

However, I will not purchase any more of this beer, because:
A - Why the fuck do I need to pay for this fancy bottle?
B - Theres plenty of Hacker Pschorr to be had, for less money, and it's a better weisse.

Seems to me like they are going in reverse. Is it not more reasonable to release a seasonal beer, then move it to a regular product if it's popular?

What if Muskoka has such success with re-branding the weisse, that they do the same with the Pils for example? Would that be acceptable? What if they put all their product in fancy bottles and charged more? Is that a step up for the brewery?

It's all about Principal!

icemachine wrote:It's definitely different from the original Hefe-weiss, less body, almost into krystalweizen territory, doesn't retain a head or lacing even. The bubblegum and banana are still quite noticeable if slightly reduced....

I just tried this one. I agree it's different, but can't agree with the krystal comparison. There is still plenty of suspended yeast; this beer is not clear. The phenols (I think that's the word. Or esters. Something.) are still there as well. While the clove and bubblegum are more subtle, there is still a whopping amount of banana. If that's what you're into. We're talking banana popsicle. Nor is this dry, by any means.

It's not bad, though. I don't mind the banana. Just don't like the bottle.

Not taking a shot at you or anything wbread, but you have raised questions that are indicative of the rest of this thread. so here goes!

>I can't tell the difference, and I don't think it warrants being packaged as a "special" beer.
So what does warrant special packaging? Personally I could do without the fancy boxes for McAuslan/Fullers/Innis & Gunn but they obviously feel it sells better with them.

>CLEARLY this re-branding is designed to influence customers based solely on the shelf appeal.
Isn't that what ALL branding is?

>while this is not an out and out dishonest move by Muskoka, it's certainly deceptive (at least to those familiar with the beer to begin with).

Perhaps I am just cynical but my default assumption these days is to assume that if something might be the same as the old version it probably is.

>Why the fuck do I need to pay for this fancy bottle?
You don't. Unless you want to drink that beer. If you feel that there are other better wheat beers out there at better prices, its your perogative to buy those. I definitely buy less Rogue in the crazy ceramics. I will probably buy MORE Muskoka to use the bottles for homebrew personally.


>Seems to me like they are going in reverse. Is it not more reasonable to release a seasonal beer, then move it to a regular product if it's popular?
Not really. If they sell 90% of the beer in the spring/summer then it makes sense to only brew it then. Otherwise its taking up space in tanks, warehouses, and delivery trucks that could be used for other brands.

>What if Muskoka has such success with re-branding the weisse, that they do the same with the Pils for example? Would that be acceptable?
Of course its "acceptable". I'm sure people on Bartowel would freak out the same as we have here though.


>What if they put all their product in fancy bottles and charged more? Is that a step up for the brewery?
How do you define "a step up" in a way that is not subjective? Personally I doubt they will do that - Without any actual knowledge of their sales I would guess that their core brands sell best in cans/six packs.


And that was really long, sorry!

>raised questions that are indicative of the rest of this thread
That's the point right!

>So what does warrant special packaging?
IMO, a special beer warrants special packaging, ie, not a regular offering. Obv, "special" is a subjective opinion, I'd like to see a higher alcohol Weisse, or a weisse that is legitimately different from the canned one, which i don't see with this release. I have no problem buying stuff like their Christmas seasonal in a fancy bottle, because it's a different and unique product, it's special. The Innis and Gunn stuff is also heavy on fancy packaging, but at least they offer something unique, that said, I don't buy stuff from them too often because of the price.

>Isn't that what ALL branding is?
I don't know, it's certianly marketing, but it's hard to say that the Grand River "brand" is designed to jump off the shelf, and appeal to the laybeerdrinker.

>Perhaps I am just cynical but my default assumption these days is to assume that if something might be the same as the old version it probably is.
I propose that moves like this are what fuel your assumption.


>Of course its "acceptable". I'm sure people on Bartowel would freak out the same as we have here though.
Then it's not acceptable, because some people here aren't accepting it. Again, personal subjectivity.

Basically, the way I see it is this:
From a producer POV, its a good move, they will prob make some more cash and thats good for the brewery.
From a consumer POV, it's not great, we are offered the (arguably) same product, for a shorter length of time, for more money.

The absolute good/bad decision is unattainable because of everyone's own likes and dislikes, interests and politics. HOWEVER, I am not a producer, I am a consumer, so this move negatively affects my beer life.

The_Jester wrote:... There is still plenty of suspended yeast; this beer is not clear. The phenols (I think that's the word. Or esters. Something.) are still there as well. While the clove and bubblegum are more subtle, there is still a whopping amount of banana.

I think Hefe is great to demonstrate both phenols (clove) and esters (banana.) I also sometimes get lemony citrus acidity, bubblegum, and even vanilla. Pretty cool stuff for one little yeast strain & no added flavorings.

What do you guess will be Muskoka's next seasonal? I bet it will be something like an Orval clone... but stronger and wilder. Either that, or a 3.2% session bitter. Flavored with real Ontario strawberry.

wbread wrote:

What if Muskoka has such success with re-branding the weisse, that they do the same with the Pils for example? Would that be acceptable? What if they put all their product in fancy bottles and charged more? Is that a step up for the brewery?

It's all about Principal!

This is the Gospel of Chris, and I am a follower of the word!

Belgian wrote:

The_Jester wrote:... There is still plenty of suspended yeast; this beer is not clear. The phenols (I think that's the word. Or esters. Something.) are still there as well. While the clove and bubblegum are more subtle, there is still a whopping amount of banana.

I think Hefe is great to demonstrate both phenols (clove) and esters (banana.) I also sometimes get lemony citrus acidity, bubblegum, and even vanilla. Pretty cool stuff for one little yeast strain & no added flavorings.

What do you guess will be Muskoka's next seasonal? I bet it will be something like an Orval clone... but stronger and wilder. Either that, or a 3.2% session bitter. Flavored with real Ontario strawberry.

A wild strawberry lambic? Such a shame picking wild strawberries is so much effort compared to cultivated ones, because the flavour of those wee berries is just out of this world.

icemachine wrote: A wild strawberry lambic? Such a shame picking wild strawberries is so much effort compared to cultivated ones, because the flavour of those wee berries is just out of this world.

Picking those things is a good way to completely F your back up.

sprague11 wrote:

icemachine wrote: A wild strawberry lambic? Such a shame picking wild strawberries is so much effort compared to cultivated ones, because the flavour of those wee berries is just out of this world.

Picking those things is a good way to completely F your back up.

That's why you pay little kids to do it. And by 'pay' I mean a laughably trivial sum that exploits child labour - not that I'm bitter or anything

Belgian wrote:...What do you guess will be Muskoka's next seasonal? I bet it will be something like an Orval clone... but stronger and wilder. Either that, or a 3.2% session bitter. Flavored with real Ontario strawberry.

Rebrand of "Fix" in a limited edition, hand-numbered bottle.

The_Jester wrote:

Belgian wrote:...What do you guess will be Muskoka's next seasonal? I bet it will be something like an Orval clone... but stronger and wilder. Either that, or a 3.2% session bitter. Flavored with real Ontario strawberry.

Rebrand of "Fix" in a limited edition, hand-numbered bottle.

That wouldn't surprise at all. Then everyone would come on here to tell me what a "smart" decision it was! Ha!

The_Jester wrote:

Belgian wrote:...What do you guess will be Muskoka's next seasonal? I bet it will be something like an Orval clone... but stronger and wilder. Either that, or a 3.2% session bitter. Flavored with real Ontario strawberry.

Rebrand of "Fix" in a limited edition, hand-numbered bottle.

Better also be wax-dipped to seal in all those leaky swing-top flavors... yeah I'm feelin' it.

Are there no cheese-flavored beers made in Ontario?