The Bar Towel

It seems by August 1st, we will have beer in convenience stores in Ontario. With a big payment to Molbatts, the Ontario government is speeding things up.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.7213546

I'm assuming the expedition of this was for political purposes. Perhaps not a bad call in that regard, but I have spent less than $20 at the Beer Store in my entire life, and hundreds of millions more of taxpayer funds isn't my cup of tea.

Added: I thought about how the Libs could attack Ford for the big fee, but it hits less hard because it was the Libs that made this poor contract.

Further Addition: I remember seeing a two four of Sierra Nevada at an American Costco, and I wouldn't mind if Amsterdam or GLB were sold at Costcos, here.

Beaumont and St. John speak with Rubin about the subject in today's Star.

https://www.thestar.com/business/is-the ... f14d9.html

My primary skepticism remains around if breweries will be able to negotiate pricing. So for example, a case of GLB Octopus is $75 at the brewery or TBS. Unless it's allowed to be cheaper we won't see beer at Costco.

anthony9 wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 10:27 am Added: I thought about how the Libs could attack Ford for the big fee, but it hits less hard because it was the Libs that made this poor contract.

Politics aside, remember the "poor contract" was a part of what brought beer to grocery stores in the first place. Everyone pretty much loves that now, and *no* government ever got that done previously. I'm not defending the deal, but it's kind of funny that it's being framed as a bad contract. The Cons can just let it lapse but the timing doesn't work with their politics.

Cass wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 7:33 am it's kind of funny that it's being framed as a bad contract. The Cons can just let it lapse but the timing doesn't work with their politics.

Politics and facts don't mix (especially when so few people vote, and the ones that do, have such short memories).

For a party that's all about eliminating government "waste", it's pretty odious for Drug Ford to be throwing away hundreds of millions of dollars to buy out a contract that expires in only 18 months! what a "business man"

Cass wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 7:31 am Unless it's allowed to be cheaper we won't see beer at Costco.

I wonder if that's true. I would have assumed they would want to get the extra sales but without that differentiation point it may or may not be worth the space / the other stuff that comes with dealing with it? I guess we will see.

I think the whole thing has the potential to be good for breweries but as a taxpayer I don't see how they remotely justify paying that extra money vs waiting a year.

Cass wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 7:33 am

anthony9 wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 10:27 am Added: I thought about how the Libs could attack Ford for the big fee, but it hits less hard because it was the Libs that made this poor contract.

Politics aside, remember the "poor contract" was a part of what brought beer to grocery stores in the first place. Everyone pretty much loves that now, and *no* government ever got that done previously. I'm not defending the deal, but it's kind of funny that it's being framed as a bad contract. The Cons can just let it lapse but the timing doesn't work with their politics.

I guess points for breaking that wall. Anything that can weaken foreign oligopolies is a good thing. Domestic oligopolies, too, of course.

JerCraigs wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 10:09 am I wonder if that's true. I would have assumed they would want to get the extra sales but without that differentiation point it may or may not be worth the space / the other stuff that comes with dealing with it? I guess we will see.

Costco is a special case which is why I'm always interested in it. Their business model is based upon exclusives & multi-packs and they will simply not put the same thing on the shelf at the same price that you can get somewhere else.

So for Costco to do beer they'd have to be enabled to either get a pricing advantage, or breweries would have to be able to deliver some kind of exclusive (like a special mix case, or 30/40/whatever can case).

Cool your heels on lower prices. It ain't going to happen with minimum pricing in the regime. Look at the propaganda. It never mentions pricing. Just convenience. Costco will get in the game only if they think their members would like to pick up beer without making an additional stop somewhere.

Also, the whole BS (pun intended) around deposit return continues to loom large. Apparently retailers with a certain floor space or larger who wish to sell these products will have to accept returns. That's a good thing, but it's also a cost, so it will need to be seen who signs on.

Tapsucker wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:22 pm Cool your heels on lower prices. It ain't going to happen with minimum pricing in the regime. Look at the propaganda. It never mentions pricing. Just convenience. Costco will get in the game only if they think their members would like to pick up beer without making an additional stop somewhere.

That's part of my point - since pricing isn't on the table, nobody should expect Costco to carry beer anytime soon.

If anyone goes to Costcos in the GTA they most certainly do not need beer to keep busy.

Seems this will likely only benefit consumers in terms of convenience. Not in terms of price or variety. At least initially. But this is likely an important first step to fostering change long term. More retailers means more squeaky wheels asking to be greased. Retailers often seek differentiation, which can come in terms of pricing or variety.

So if not a big deal for craft beer enthusiasts initially, it is probably an important step in the long term.

Having said that, good chance a lot of us will be dead by the time changes occur that would excite a craft beer enthusiast. Perhaps unsurprisingly, my concern for future generations' access to craft beer might not exactly top my list of altruistic priorities.

cannondale wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 5:08 pm Having said that, good chance a lot of us will be dead by the time changes occur that would excite a craft beer enthusiast.

I am a bit more optimistic than that - I think there is potential for a convenience or grocery store to decide they want to have a great beer selection as one example. We kind of already have that in some cases with bars being allowed to sell beer to go though. How big of a deal that is to local customers will very wildly as well. The impact of such a store in Toronto vs. a smaller city/town will likely vary depending what is already available locally.

cannondale wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 5:08 pm Seems this will likely only benefit consumers in terms of convenience. Not in terms of price or variety. At least initially.

It's interesting about variety. It's been what, 8-9 years since beer has come to grocery - has variety improved? Certainly not from anything outside of Ontario. There's more access to Ontario beers thanks to grocery, but again it's a convenience thing as the brewers could have done it anyway and sold thru their online storefronts so I'm not sure any increase in Ontario brewed variety was due to grocery.

The LCBO still does the seasonal releases and that doesn't happen anywhere else, and probably won't change with these new changes.

If anything, the changes that the government did during COVID that enabled places like Volo to sell beer to go has improved variety, but it's still a pain for them to import and prices are high.

All this hubbub IMO will basically just be what happened in grocery 10 years ago at a larger scale. I'm not convinced anything else will change, except being able to buy 2-4s outside of TBS.

single cans will be available following the US model. Your 7-11 convenience will stock macros and regionals, and convenience near a brewery will have that brewery's cans available as singles. No biggie, but it's something.

Some updates on the issue...

https://globalnews.ca/news/10695319/ont ... -increase/

The agency told Global News it had approved 3,830 new licenses as of Aug. 11 — a little more than half the 6,700 stores province-wide. Those licenses have gone to convenience stores, gas stations and outlets within malls, among other places.

It always bugs me that these stories are almost always about doom and gloom. Not a single bit about how increased shelf space can help local brewers, etc.