Okocim Porter

[old faithful]

I picked this up today at Queen's Quay. I had it a few years ago (LCBO-sourced) and was hoping its pronounced sweetness had moderated since then. Alas...

Okocim Porter has a very fresh, almost microbrewed malty/beery smell. It is dark brown and the maltiness in the nose is evident in the taste, as is a slight bitterness from hops. But the predominant impression is of an intense sweetness. This beer is too sweet for my personal taste, with half the sweetness it would be fine. As it is it will appeal to those who enjoy decidedly sweet beers or (see below) are prepared to engage in the challenges and joys of blending. I have to wonder if sucrose in some form is added to this beer so sugared seems the palate. Anyway, I found it makes a lovely beer when mixed 1:2 with Sleeman IPA. Not that I bought either beer intending to blend them but since both are in the Old Faithful bunker, I thought why not try a combination? Indeed they seem made for each other, the hoppy, "saline" quality of the Sleeman beer interleaves well with Okocim's hyper-malty porter. Even at 1:3 Okocim to Sleeman one obtains a mellow, balanced beer which surely is one version of what an historical blended porter tasted like.

Does the Okocim Porter itself represent a type of porter available in its heyday? This is entirely possible. But judged for example against beers such as Wellington County Russian Imperial Stout, Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout or Perry Mason's majestic Tsarina Katarina Imperial Stout the Okocim Porter seems less complex and interesting.

Gary

[GregClow]

Does the Okocim Porter itself represent a type of porter available in its heyday? This is entirely possible. But judged for example against beers such as Wellington County Russian Stout, Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout or Perry Mason's majestic Tsarine Katarina Imperial Stout the Okocim Porter seems less complex and interesting.

Gary, it's worth noting that Okocim Porter is a Baltic Porter, not a Russian/Imperial Stout. While the two styles are close cousins, there are some marked differences.

For one thing, Baltic Porters are typically bottom-fermented, making them technically lagers. And the style is generally much less roasty & has a more prominent malty sweetness than Imperial Stouts.

It's likely that you already knew most of this info, but I thought it was worth mentioning in the context of the comparisons you made. While all of the beers you mention may be in the same ballpark, using those Impys as a yardstick for the Okocim Porter - or any other Baltic Porter - isn't entirely accurate, as the stylistic differences you note are to be expected.

Personally, I'm a fan of both styles, and I think it's a shame that the LCBO recently delisted the Okocim. The bottles that are currently in the system will be the last ones we see (and drink!), at least for now.

[old faithful]

Greg, all good points, thanks. I know that the Baltic porters are bottom-fermented, or most of them. Still, unquestionably these extant Baltic porters were inspired by the import to those lands from Britain of strong stouts hundreds of years ago, and I think it is fair to compare all these beers in a general sense (as I think you allowed). Then too some of the modern Baltic porters/strong stouts approach more closely the best Anglo/American examples; Carnegie Porter does, so does the fine Koff porter from Finland and no doubt there are others.

Sampling now Scotch-Irish Brewing's Tsarina Katarina, it strikes me as a very good and authentic version of what these beers may have been like 300 years ago. Kudos to Perry, there is no other domestic Imperial Stout that comes close to his although Wellington County's is very good too.

Gary

[HogTownHarry]

[zinggggggggggggg!]

(noise of rapid moving object overflying cranium)

[old faithful]

Sorry to read that Okocim Porter will no longer be available here, it offers needed variety and (as is my wont) it is interesting to compare it to other beers of the same general style. I don't think Greg and I disagree, I may be more a "lumper" and he a "splitter", that's all. The Okocim lagers available here are quite good by the way, I find they are better than most of the other East European lagers on offer at LCBO. I like Zelta too, and some of the others (watch the best-by dates, freshest is usually best). Speaking of East European lagers, I was surprised to see that the latest stock of Czechvar at Queen's Quay is in green bottles. Grrr, one of the things I liked about this beer is it came in brown bottles.! I bought a few anyway, haven't tried them yet, hopefully it is as good as the brown-bottled version.

Gary

[Steve Spong]

I, for one, am terribly disappointed in the swift delisting of the Okocim Porter. It was one of the beers that triggered my intrest in beer way back in the days when I was a *ahem* high school beer drinker (yes, I was a underage high school beer snob). Even though I've had better porters since, I still enjoy it as a sentimental tipple. It's a shame, really. I can't help but think it's a shame that it couldn't serve as a eye-opener for some young, ignorant beer drinkers who try it as an inexpensive, high-alcohol beer and find that beer CAN be more than Molbatt generics. Well, I guess it's time to remove the rose-tinted glasses....

[midlife crisis]

Gary:

What is the definition of an English "milk stout"? I may be off base, but when I tasted the Okocim that's what I imagined a milk stout should be. (I've heard of them but have no idea if they are actually meant to be sweet).

I'm not a big fan of sweet beers generally (drain poured the Innis & Gunn, for instance) but I like the Okocim Porter for a nice change of pace. It is very drinkable and has just enough roasty malt balancing the sweetness to keep my interest, anyway. Love the blending idea, BTW.

[old faithful]

It's funny you ask about milk stout, on holiday recently I found some Mackeson stout, which is in that style, which I found very good. There is indeed a kind of relation between Okocim Porter and the Mackeson type of beer. True, milk stout (originally a mild porter but made with a component of unfermentable lactose - milk sugars - to impart a gentle sweetness) is typically a low gravity beer. But we know that many English beer styles were made available in a range of gravities. E.g., Martin Cornell in his superb, "Beer - The Story of the Pint" states that before WW 1, XXX and XXXX strong mild ales were available, for example. So it is possible the Okocim Porter is a survival of that type of beer. No doubt many kinds of porter survived behind the former Iron Curtain, only a few of which still exist. Here is another use for a strong sweet porter: mix it 50/50 with any kind dry sparkling wine, you get a Black Velvet with that. Champagne is the classic base but you can use any good dry sparkling wine, I have used Ontario sparklers to make a Black Velvet and it is just superb.

Gary

[tupalev]

Sampling now Scotch-Irish Brewing's Tsarina Katarina, it strikes me as a very good and authentic version of what these beers may have been like 300 years ago

And beers may have tasted like roasted corn on the cob mixed with turnips 300 years ago, I guess we'll never know.

Besides, I don't think Perry is that old

Seriously Gary, do you really think that is what Perry was going for here? It just struck me as an odd statement.

[old faithful]

No, all I'm saying is Perry's beer strikes me as a very traditional strong English-style porter or stout, something close to what some strong dark ale tasted like in the original porter era. We'll never know for sure of course. One thing I think most would agree who have tried it, it is one of the best beers in Canada today.

Gary

[tupalev]

One thing I think most would agree who have tried it, it is one of the best beers in Canada today

Agreed! That's why I have 40+ bottles scattered around my place...

Just tell that to our low rating Quebec ratebeer friends though

[lagerale]

But the predominant impression is of an intense sweetness. This beer is too sweet for my personal taste

I couldn't agree more. I could only finish about half the glass before I gave up - never thought of blending it with something else though. Personally, I don't like my beer too sweet as it feels like I'm drinking some type of cooler.

As for de-listing the beer, it is a shame. While not a fan of the beer, I do appreciate diversity in selection of beer styles. That said, someone should inform the LCBO that 30 euro lagers does not create true "selection".

[Belgian]

It's a great beer, and yet I won't miss it. That about sums up my views here.
I'd try the Zywiec Porter though if I saw it.

[Steve Spong]

Ah! The Zywiec Porter! A fantastic porter which far outstrips the Okocim, and would be a wonderful addition to the LCBO canon. Another great Baltic Porter, and under-rated, in my opinion, is the Baltika Porter. I won't dwell on this in this post though, as I have been over this before

[old faithful]

The Zywiec Porter would be well-appreciated, and by the way the Victory Storm King version was great and needed to be on the shelves longer. While the odd Euro lager pleases (I like Zelta, and Fischer) there are too many available with not enough stylistic diversity. More Baltic porters, in particular, of differing strengths would be appreciated. On the other hand, more Belgian lagers would be nice, too, even some of the mass produced ones can be pretty good.

Gary