The Bar Towel

With apologies if this is a newbie blunder or common knowledge that I've just been too obtuse to come across before or the sort of thing that gets asked all the time and makes people angry when it gets asked again, but why does it seem so hard to find home brewing supplies in Ontario? It seems like I either have to order online or else drive to Buffalo.

What am I missing here?

Thanks.

(I'm not looking for places to buy stuff, just wondering why it seems there are so few.)

I don't know what the problem is. You'd think that Toronto could support at least one (somewhat) centrally located brew shop.

Perhaps its time to sit down over a pint and discuss the realistic prospect of starting one.

Another question that may sound stupid: Is there an actual homebrew club in Toronto that meets regularly? A strong homebrewing club is usually what gets the supply shops to start carrying the stuff you want.

We have a very well run club in Regina, with over 50 members. Just about all the local shops sponsor the club, and 3 of them attend every meeting. They offer us discounts in the 5-10% range, donate kits, grains and yeast for our monthly raffle, and bring in just about anything we ask them to. They also host "brew days" at their stores where our club members get together brew a couple all-grain batches "on location"... it works really well because they advertise it to their regular customers as an "educational event," so lots of interested people stop by, and we've attracted lots of new members this way.

I support this idea, however, due to my geographic bias, I would me more inclined to support a London based club.

There's the Biergotter guys. I think they are still active and GTA-located (Markham?). One of them posts here regularly.

Biergotter isn't really a club in the traditional sense. Just a couple guys who brew some beers, and some other guys who get together to brew sometimes.

I'm an avid all-grain brewer who moved to Ontario from the US in 2003. It's taken me some time to get a handle on the homebrewing scene here, but my long-considered opinion is that the prevalence of BOPs in Ontario syphons off the base of the pyramid that supports all-grain brewers. Those who seek beer cheaper than the high prices (compared to the US) at the Beer Store have access to it at the BOPs and rather little exposure to the process. They're more than happy to sprinkle yeast into pre-boiled wort and come back two weeks later to bottle and collect their brew. They don't get bitten by the homebrewing bug and graduate to more advanced techniques and styles.

Canadian homebrewers who live in provinces that don't allow BOPs (Alberta and Manitoba, for example) tell me the homebrewing scene there is more active despite the smaller populations. I agree it's very sad that there are 8 million people within a 90-minute drive (at least when traffic isn't an issue)of where I live, yet the only full-service homebrew shop is across the border in the Buffalo area.

More than once I've considered opening a homebrew shop. I know homebrewing is said to be countercyclical in terms of the economy, but it would still be a considerable risk ($30,000-$40,000 investment) to do it properly. I suspect I might be able to earn $20,000-$25,000 a year from it, but that's hardly a good return for the time and effort involved, let alone the startup costs. I've already lost a part of my life in a failed effort to earn a living as a craft brewer. Brewing is a wonderful hobby but a very problematic career.

I'd like to think there is more hope for advanced homebrewing in Ontario, but after a lot of thought and consideration I have my doubts.

I signed up with CABA at http://www.homebrewers.ca/, and recommend the same for anyone in the GTA. Yes it is the Canadian Homebrewers Assoc, but they are based out of the GTA with multiple ara events throughout the year.

Bill - when you say Full Service BOP, what do you mean?

By full-service homebrew shop I mean one that sells the range of ingredients, supplies and equipment used by advanced and all-grain homebrewers. There are a number of BOPs in the GTA (with the emphasis on "greater") that have some ingredients and a limited selection of supplies and equipment, but not what you will find at dozens of shops in the US, including Niagara Tradition Homebrew in the Buffalo area. Nor is there a comprehensive mail-order supplier in Canada now that Paddock Wood in Saskatoon has given up the homebrew portion of their business to concentrate on craft brewing. Again there are individual shops and suppliers that try to do what they can, and the truly committed homebrewer finds ways to cope, but it's hardly an ideal situation.

It only took one experience at a BOP to convince three friends that all-grain homebrewing was the way to go. BOP just does not feel at all like a hobby or a craft. It's like going to a knitting shop where you pick out the yarn and the store knits the sweater for you.

Gedge wrote:It only took one experience at a BOP to convince three friends that all-grain homebrewing was the way to go. BOP just does not feel at all like a hobby or a craft. It's like going to a knitting shop where you pick out the yarn and the store knits the sweater for you.

not only do they knit the sweater for you they also only give you 3 colours of yarn to choose from and the size has to be a large.

Guybrush wrote:I support this idea, however, due to my geographic bias, I would me more inclined to support a London based club.

I assume you've been to:
http://www.brewhaven.on.ca/new.htm

It's a pretty good place.

As for local clubs, the SOB's do bulk purchases:
http://www.bartowel.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=34529

I've signed up on their Facebook page, but haven't actually got involved yet.

Bill Pierce wrote:By full-service homebrew shop I mean one that sells the range of ingredients, supplies and equipment used by advanced and all-grain homebrewers. There are a number of BOPs in the GTA (with the emphasis on "greater") that have some ingredients and a limited selection of supplies and equipment, but not what you will find at dozens of shops in the US, including Niagara Tradition Homebrew in the Buffalo area. Nor is there a comprehensive mail-order supplier in Canada now that Paddock Wood in Saskatoon has given up the homebrew portion of their business to concentrate on craft brewing. Again there are individual shops and suppliers that try to do what they can, and the truly committed homebrewer finds ways to cope, but it's hardly an ideal situation.

I've been all-graining for just over a year now and have had decent success with supplies from Brew Time in Hamilton. They are a BOP for those who wan't a deal on 48 litres of beer, but they do have a good selection of malts, hops and White Labs Yeast Strains. What they don't have, they seem to be good at obtaining. You may want to give them a look.

Cheers,
Jay

Derek wrote:

Guybrush wrote:I support this idea, however, due to my geographic bias, I would me more inclined to support a London based club.

I assume you've been to:
http://www.brewhaven.on.ca/new.htm

It's a pretty good place.

Brewhaven meets my bare-minimum needs for brewing. Don't get me wrong, if they suddenly went out of business, I'd go crazy, like kill people 'style'. What I mean to say is I seem to have out grown what they can sell me, and infrequent trips to Buffalo seem to be the only thing that satisfy my purchasing needs....

Just dreaming of being able to drink cask ale and buy amazingly fantastic homebrew ingredients all with in 3-4 mins of my living space..... oh to dream....