Grand River Headstrong pale ale

[pootz]

As Greg has stated on this form before, Headstrong is a branded holding company that contract brews it's beers. In the past it was done by Wellington but recently they have split production of their pale ale between the FX Matt Brewing Co (Utica club/Saranak) of Utica NY and Grand River Brewing of Galt Ont. FX Matt do the canned product while GRB supply the local draft accounts with Headstrong Pale Ale.

Having sampled the canned product and the draft product, I have to say there is a vast difference in quality and taste. The fresh GRB draft version is as good a micro pale ale as you would ever find at a Pac NW brew pub. The canned version is a lot more demure and far less bright in hops, fruity esters and freshness. IMHO.

I was thinking the difference is great enough that Headstrong pale ale deserves 2 listings on Rate beer/BA.... one for GRB's draft/cask version and one for Matt's Canned version.

Anyone concur?

[cratez]

I've noticed a difference as well. The draught is spot on for an English Pale Ale, while the canned version is just okay. For $1.85 a can, though, you won't hear me complaining. Separate listings are warranted, but the Wellington ratings should be merged with the Grand River ones. Three listings for the same beer is unnecessary.

[GregClow]

I was thinking the difference is great enough that Headstrong pale ale deserves 2 listings on Rate beer/BA.... one for GRB's draft/cask version and one for Matt's Canned version.

Anyone concur?

I'd actually go so far as to say that it deserves THREE listings - one for the GRB draught, one for the Matt canned, and one for the original Big Hole version being brewed by Madison River in Montana. (Assuming that they're still brewing it, of course.)

I can see it being reasonable to have macro-beer like Bud that are brewed in many countries combined under single ratings on those sites. But when it comes to small/craft brews like this that are brewed in more than one place, I think that the different brewing companies/locations can have a vast difference on the end product.

Then again, it might be an administrative headache to do things this way. But that would be my personal preference.

And back to the original point - yes, draught/cask Headstrong completely kicks the ass of the canned version.

[pootz]

I totally agree Greg, My personal tasting of the GRB headstrong draft is that it is the best thing out of GRB since they did the short lived Castle Executioner's ale.

It's done with a bit of the west coast APA style/hopping and it's absolutely delish...too damn tasty IMHO.

What with this GRB APA success and Black Oak's recent DIPA I think the existing market research shows this market is ready for, and can sustain, a good micro brewed APA or DIPA in the Pacific NW style....brewed year round and put on LCBO shelves


BTW> can we petition the powers that be at RB and BA to break out Headstrong this way...I think it's only fair to the brewers that their efforts stand on their own and not under the blanket of a contracting trade mark.

[JerCraigs]

I can see it being reasonable to have macro-beer like Bud that are brewed in many countries combined under single ratings on those sites. But when it comes to small/craft brews like this that are brewed in more than one place, I think that the different brewing companies/locations can have a vast difference on the end product.

Then again, it might be an administrative headache to do things this way. But that would be my personal preference.

I agree with the point about it affecting the product but not necessarily about having the same listings. Sergeant Majors IPA should therefore have a listing for Church Key, Heritage and other? I don't think they were concurrent though, so perhaps a better example is when Denison's was being brewed at both Black Oak and Mill Street (and later at Cool). The consumer would have had no way of knowing where the product was being produced.

In the US I believe that Sly Fox and Southhampton contract out some of their production, (or did in the past?) Boston Beer Company contracts out most of their production around the US. In theory contract brewers/or the contracting person should be adjusting the process/recipt to ensure similar taste across the board.

I think the main reason for not separating them though, is administrative as you pointed out. Its a pain to confirm all of the information, and then to track it as it changes.

[tuqueboy]

[
In the US I believe that Sly Fox and Southhampton contract out some of their production, (or did in the past?) Boston Beer Company contracts out most of their production around the US.

A brief correction. When Jim Koch was in town, he swore Boston Beer Company no longer does any contract brewing.

[biegaman]

A brief correction. When Jim Koch was in town, he swore Boston Beer Company no longer does any contract brewing.

That may be true, although it does warrant a mention that the production of Sam Adams is spread out between three different facilities in three different states. How much (if at all) that affects consistency and quality I can't say personally, but there was a recent discussion thread on Beer Advocate where many people swore they could notice a difference in the overall product depending on which plant it was brewed at.

[GregClow]

I can see it being reasonable to have macro-beer like Bud that are brewed in many countries combined under single ratings on those sites. But when it comes to small/craft brews like this that are brewed in more than one place, I think that the different brewing companies/locations can have a vast difference on the end product.

I agree with the point about it affecting the product but not necessarily about having the same listings. Sergeant Majors IPA should therefore have a listing for Church Key, Heritage and other? I don't think they were concurrent though, so perhaps a better example is when Denison's was being brewed at both Black Oak and Mill Street (and later at Cool). The consumer would have had no way of knowing where the product was being produced.

Well, in this case, there's a very clear way to differentiate and separate them: cans available in Ontario are brewed at FX Matt, draught/cask in Ontario is brewed at GRB, and whatever is available in Montana is brewed by Madison River.

It might be a tough sell to try and get them split on RB/BA. But maybe it's worth a shot...

[SteelbackGuy]

I can see it being reasonable to have macro-beer like Bud that are brewed in many countries combined under single ratings on those sites. But when it comes to small/craft brews like this that are brewed in more than one place, I think that the different brewing companies/locations can have a vast difference on the end product.

I agree with the point about it affecting the product but not necessarily about having the same listings. Sergeant Majors IPA should therefore have a listing for Church Key, Heritage and other? I don't think they were concurrent though, so perhaps a better example is when Denison's was being brewed at both Black Oak and Mill Street (and later at Cool). The consumer would have had no way of knowing where the product was being produced.

Well, in this case, there's a very clear way to differentiate and separate them: cans available in Ontario are brewed at FX Matt, draught/cask in Ontario is brewed at GRB, and whatever is available in Montana is brewed by Madison River.

It might be a tough sell to try and get them split on RB/BA. But maybe it's worth a shot...

Splitting these on Rb will be difficult. Splitting them on BA will be child's play.

But careful trying to have them split on RB. See, depending on where a beer comes from, different rules apply. Say........a beer from ENgland for example.....if it is in cask form, it gets a seperate entry than regular draught or bottle.....but not a beer from, say, the USA. Cause, you know, the English are so much more worthy..............

But hey, you might have more luck separating them on BA. That said, question one thing there, and your account is gone and you have strange men in black observing you for a week.

[pootz]

Splitting these on Rb will be difficult. Splitting them on BA will be child's play.

But careful trying to have them split on RB. See, depending on where a beer comes from, different rules apply. Say........a beer from ENgland for example.....if it is in cask form, it gets a seperate entry than regular draught or bottle.....but not a beer from, say, the USA. Cause, you know, the English are so much more worthy..............

But hey, you might have more luck separating them on BA. That said, question one thing there, and your account is gone and you have strange men in black observing you for a week.

I hear ya Len. I don't understand all the administrative fluster and convolution....then again I have had some dealings with RB/BA admin. and the only process I see repeated is an arbitrary process that clings to past format decision....if this is still the case, it seems fairly simple to separate Headstrong pale ale into a draft and cask version listing as they do so many other brewers ( not just UK but US, Germany, scandanavia and Czech....all have separate cask listings of a bottled brand).

The bottom line is (I presume) that the RB/BA gods felt there was significant difference between bottled and casked/kegged versions to warrant a separate listing.....that condition exists now with HS Pale Ale in its largest market. Seems simple and straight foreward to me.

[Bobsy]

Do all these brewers use the same recipe?

[GregClow]

Do all these brewers use the same recipe?

I expect that they do "officially". But in reality, I doubt it - the keg/cask and canned versions of Headstrong Pale have differences that can't really be explained by different packaging.

[viggo]

Do all these brewers use the same recipe?

I expect that they do "officially". But in reality, I doubt it - the keg/cask and canned versions of Headstrong Pale have differences that can't really be explained by different packaging.

Who knows. All brewing systems are different. I'm sure the recipes are nominally the same, but they probably have to tweak the recipe slightly to match the specs on the beer which gives it different character.