Central City Red Racer

[Cass]

And in other news I was just at the Binny's in Chicago and they have stacks of Red Racer. Different brands, too.

[ErkLR]

I for one, can't wait for the LCBO to be dismantled. Then we can trade it's problems for a whole different set of problems, and then lament about how the LCBO was so much better.

[JesseM]

So it's in Sault Ste. Marie now. Also been in Thunder Bay for a while. But not anywhere south of Toronto.

Makes sense to me.......

Blame my brother for the Soo getting a bunch - he ordered a couple cases worth. Gives me something to drink when I head up north

I see, well I guess I can't fault a guy way the hell up there for wanting good stuff to consume.

I enjoyed this last year and would love some again, but in case it doesn't happen, I'll just have to console myself with some Mad Tom.

[Torontoblue]

I for one, can't wait for the LCBO to be dismantled. Then we can trade it's problems for a whole different set of problems, and then lament about how the LCBO was so much better.

A man that speaketh the truth!!!!

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

I never realized there were so many submissive masochists on BarTowel.

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This "sleep with the Devil you know" mentality of some BarTowel members is baffling. It's the attitude one would expect from the Bud Light Lime crowd.

[Torontoblue]

I never realized there were so many submissive masochists on BarTowel.

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This "sleep with the Devil you know" mentality of some BarTowel members is baffling. It's the attitude one would expect from the Bud Light Lime crowd.

You still don't quite see the big picture of things, do you?

You bitched 'n moaned at the apparent lack of foresight by the LCBO/Agent in only ordering 1300 cases of Red racer. This sold out quickly. You say this is a sure sign of a broken retail system. Have you not stopped to think that this is all the brewery could spare? That this was all the agent was willing to pay? Do you even know how the system works? Do you really believe that a private retail system would handle stock and sell through any better?

We have a great private retail system in Alberta, yet things go out of stock, not enough gets ordered, is this the fault of the private retail system? No, there are a lot of variables at work. It's no-ones fault....it's life.

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

I never realized there were so many submissive masochists on BarTowel.

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This "sleep with the Devil you know" mentality of some BarTowel members is baffling. It's the attitude one would expect from the Bud Light Lime crowd.

You still don't quite see the big picture of things, do you?

You bitched 'n moaned at the apparent lack of foresight by the LCBO/Agent in only ordering 1300 cases of Red racer. This sold out quickly. You say this is a sure sign of a broken retail system. Have you not stopped to think that this is all the brewery could spare? That this was all the agent was willing to pay? Do you even know how the system works? Do you really believe that a private retail system would handle stock and sell through any better?

We have a great private retail system in Alberta, yet things go out of stock, not enough gets ordered, is this the fault of the private retail system? No, there are a lot of variables at work. It's no-ones fault....it's life.

Why even bother posting a response? This is just a circular discussion that goes nowhere. I've already acknowledge on numerous occasions the issues that a private retail model has. Those issues are nothing compared to what is foisted upon us by the LCBO. The inability of people to grasp the simple concept (and this may be the effect of being Canadian) that the government should not be involved in things like retail is absurd. The rest of the world gets along just fine with private retail and so would Ontario. I really need to get my goal of moving the hell out of this country back on track.

Anyone on this forum that says they wouldn't trade the dozen or so good LCBO stores for a handful of amazing stores is a liar.

[cannondale]

I really need to get my goal of moving the hell out of this country back on track.

I've heard Libya is nice this time of year.

[Torontoblue]

I never realized there were so many submissive masochists on BarTowel.

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This "sleep with the Devil you know" mentality of some BarTowel members is baffling. It's the attitude one would expect from the Bud Light Lime crowd.

You still don't quite see the big picture of things, do you?

You bitched 'n moaned at the apparent lack of foresight by the LCBO/Agent in only ordering 1300 cases of Red racer. This sold out quickly. You say this is a sure sign of a broken retail system. Have you not stopped to think that this is all the brewery could spare? That this was all the agent was willing to pay? Do you even know how the system works? Do you really believe that a private retail system would handle stock and sell through any better?

We have a great private retail system in Alberta, yet things go out of stock, not enough gets ordered, is this the fault of the private retail system? No, there are a lot of variables at work. It's no-ones fault....it's life.

Why even bother posting a response? This is just a circular discussion that goes nowhere. I've already acknowledge on numerous occasions the issues that a private retail model has. Those issues are nothing compared to what is foisted upon us by the LCBO. The inability of people to grasp the simple concept (and this may be the effect of being Canadian) that the government should not be involved in things like retail is absurd. The rest of the world gets along just fine with private retail and so would Ontario. I really need to get my goal of moving the hell out of this country back on track.

Anyone on this forum that says they wouldn't trade the dozen or so good LCBO stores for a handful of amazing stores is a liar.

Why even bother posting a response? Because I just like answering circular questions posted by a putz!

So, if the Government isn't involved in retail (and it still is in Alberta), you then have private companies who are so more transparent and easier to deal with than the Government, aren't they? Beer Store, by any chance?

Close the door on your way out, Pal!

[boney]

I never realized there were so many submissive masochists on BarTowel.

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This "sleep with the Devil you know" mentality of some BarTowel members is baffling. It's the attitude one would expect from the Bud Light Lime crowd.

I appreciate differences of opinion but you perpetually argue with logistical fallacies. Here are but a few from this post alone......

Ad hominem fallacy: attacking personal characteristics of another person, real or fabricated, who argues in opposition to your opinion instead of responding only to the issue itself (re: calling those who disagree with you submissive masochists)

Strawman fallacy: directing attention away from an issue by attacking a weak alternate interpretation of an opponent’s argument (re: expecting this kind of an argument from a bud-light lime crowd, hence insinuating Bartowel may have a bunch of unknowledgeable beer hacks as members)

Either-Or fallacy: dichotomizing an argument to just two black or white sides without considering alternatives and forcing those who are arguing to pick an artificially created side (re: any form of privatization is better than the LCBO)

I could go on, but I won’t.

I haven’t stated an opinion in this thread either way. Feel free to argue away. Just, for the love of God, man, change up your game because it’s getting boring.

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

Why even bother posting a response? Because I just like answering circular questions posted by a putz!

So, if the Government isn't involved in retail (and it still is in Alberta), you then have private companies who are so more transparent and easier to deal with than the Government, aren't they? Beer Store, by any chance?

Close the door on your way out, Pal!

Sorry, I meant the day-to-day retail operations, like directly operating stores and such. Regulation and things like that should still fall in the government's corner, and hell if the government still wants to operate retail facilities I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as private stores are also allowed. And again The Beer Store is only difficult to deal with because of the stranglehold it has on the Ontario market.

Cannondale: Was thinking more along the lines of the USA.

boney: Haters gonna hate.

[JesseM]

I never realized there were so many submissive masochists on BarTowel.

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This "sleep with the Devil you know" mentality of some BarTowel members is baffling. It's the attitude one would expect from the Bud Light Lime crowd.

Aside from the Red Racer availability debate, which I am apathetic to, I agree with you here.

I don't care if most shelf space goes to MolBatts, it's the principle of privitized sales I support. I have faith that there will still be people opening up stores for craft beer. I can't speak with a lot of authority on this because I don't know exactly what it's like in the west, but I like the retail model in Quebec the best. Sure prices can be high, and you may have to shop around for lower prices, but frankly, I don't care as much about cost. I'm a frugal person, and there is the occasional beer at the LCBO I won't get because I think it's simply not worth it, but I felt totally okay with paying $8.99 at Marche Omni for a 750mL of La Terrible, or $4.99 for La Vache Folle.

[JesseM]

I should add that my main beef with the status quo in Ontario is the prevalence of the Social Responsibility concept. As if Ontario is some sort of safe haven from the evils of over-indulgence, underage drinking, and drinking and driving . Give me a break. I have no patience for the preachy teetotaller lobby*.

*a ficitious term I just came up with

[SteelbackGuy]

I never realized there were so many submissive masochists on BarTowel.

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This "sleep with the Devil you know" mentality of some BarTowel members is baffling. It's the attitude one would expect from the Bud Light Lime crowd.

I appreciate differences of opinion but you perpetually argue with logistical fallacies. Here are but a few from this post alone......

Ad hominem fallacy: attacking personal characteristics of another person, real or fabricated, who argues in opposition to your opinion instead of responding only to the issue itself (re: calling those who disagree with you submissive masochists)

Strawman fallacy: directing attention away from an issue by attacking a weak alternate interpretation of an opponent’s argument (re: expecting this kind of an argument from a bud-light lime crowd, hence insinuating Bartowel may have a bunch of unknowledgeable beer hacks as members)

Either-Or fallacy: dichotomizing an argument to just two black or white sides without considering alternatives and forcing those who are arguing to pick an artificially created side (re: any form of privatization is better than the LCBO)

I could go on, but I won’t.

I haven’t stated an opinion in this thread either way. Feel free to argue away. Just, for the love of God, man, change up your game because it’s getting boring.

Nice.

[IPASlav]

I really like the Quebec model...but I have to say, I don't think it's impossible to have similar choice with the LCBO...the LCBO is realizing this...craft beers are the biggest increase in their profits right now...Admit it...compare the seasonal releases of this past year with three years ago? Would we have seen a Gueze in 2008? A Gemini? A Pumking?

While I loved shopping in Montreal this weekend, I realized that while it was thrilling to get stuff we can't get here, there wasn't a WHOLE lot of diversity...nor is there a lot of change when I go there from year to year...In fact, I wonder if I lived there, if I would get bored of the beers and come across the provincial border because there was great southern tier release in ottawa...

What if I wanted a U.S. IPA? Or a classic German weiss, or even something as simple as a hobgoblin or Fuller's London Porter? I've never seen any Garrison in Quebec and they are a stone's throw away. In fact, I find that many Quebeckers don't know a lot about beers outside their own province...

We often assume that privatization gives us a lot of choice, but how much better can it possibly be? Beer store better? Oh, wait, Beer Boutique better?

And frankly I would neither want privatization nor nationalization based on "principal". Assuming one is automatically better than the other is silly ideology.

One final thought: None of us liked seeing that nonsense with Smashbomb unfold. All of us just wanted the beer in the damn stores...While we were all patiently waiting I emailed the brewery and an individual emailed me back assuring me that Smashbomb would be in stores soon...

Not only that, this person went on to comment about how much certain people at the LC really went to bat for the beer and FM. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that we don't know about...

I think we can be as armchaired and curmudgeonly as we like, but we don't always understand the full story...

We need to encourage the LCBO to continue with this craft beer growth. Broader releases and more regular releases (hop head and red racer are good examples as are the brewery features) Write letters. Call. Hell, they got so many emails about smashbomb, they had to write a form response and post it on their website.

I don't care what kind of system we have, but I would rather have one that's looking towards growth and improvement and is committed to getting better beers inside this province, but also supports our local craft brewers.