The Bar Towel

I'm writing this in advance of the cuvee rene hitting the ground. I have some left from last year, and I'm going to probably get a few more to cellar this year, but I'm just wondering what happens to gueuze when it ages?

I know that Impy stouts mellow and become less boozy, but cuvee isn't boozy to begin with?

Will it get more sour? less sour? more sweet? More dry?

It'll be good to compare when the new batch comes, I guess.

I think you're safe to properly cellar any serious Gueuze for a good long time Jeff.

I'm not a big Lambic freak. Definitely some batches come out more sweet or more vinegar-like when new, IMLE - I would hope aging rounds out these nasty imbalances and makes it drinkable.

I would not cellar more simple, watery 'everyday drinker' gueuze for very long. And very few would I even buy. Another recipe for nasty.

Seems to me a good gueuze should get more sour/vinegary as the bugs metabolize whatever sugars are left.

Belgian wrote:I think you're safe to properly cellar any serious Gueuze for a good long time Jeff.

I'm not a big Lambic freak. Definitely some batches come out more sweet or more vinegar-like when new, IMLE - I would hope aging rounds out these nasty imbalances and makes it drinkable.

I would not cellar more simple, watery 'everyday drinker' gueuze for very long. And very few would I even buy. Another recipe for nasty.

Does Cuvee Rene count as a serious Gueuze rather than "everyday"?

Should be fine cellaring for years and years. I've had many around the 8 year point and they have been fantastic. They smooth out and become more mellow. More barnyard character than anything.

Thanks guys - guess I'll keep what I have left of last year's for a little while longer.

JeffPorter wrote:

Belgian wrote:I think you're safe to properly cellar any serious Gueuze for a good long time Jeff.

I'm not a big Lambic freak. Definitely some batches come out more sweet or more vinegar-like when new, IMLE - I would hope aging rounds out these nasty imbalances and makes it drinkable.

I would not cellar more simple, watery 'everyday drinker' gueuze for very long. And very few would I even buy. Another recipe for nasty.

Does Cuvee Rene count as a serious Gueuze rather than "everyday"?

If you have to ask...

liamt07 wrote:

JeffPorter wrote:

Belgian wrote:I think you're safe to properly cellar any serious Gueuze for a good long time Jeff.

I'm not a big Lambic freak. Definitely some batches come out more sweet or more vinegar-like when new, IMLE - I would hope aging rounds out these nasty imbalances and makes it drinkable.

I would not cellar more simple, watery 'everyday drinker' gueuze for very long. And very few would I even buy. Another recipe for nasty.

Does Cuvee Rene count as a serious Gueuze rather than "everyday"?

If you have to ask...

I know, I know, I know...

Oude gueuze will keep almost indefinitely, but I think some initial cellaring would particularly benefit Cuvee Rene. Traditionally, newly bottled oude gueuze is cellared for a period of months or longer before being released for sale. Cuvee Rene is out the door very quickly--within weeks, or even less, I believe. (Even Saison Dupont gets six weeks of bottle conditioning at the brewery.) Can you make up for that at home? Who knows, but I've held off opening the bottles I bought last year.

gueuze will get funkier as it ages. funk will stand out more than the sour. drink it fresh and sour will stand out more than funk.

Think i've had this beer a few years ago. i was turned off by the urine-like smell to it. it was funky in a way that i didn't dig. i'd be hesitant to let that cellar for long. i'd be afraid that i'd literally be drinking a bottle of piss.

and Belgian: in theory, you can cellar gueuze indefinitely, but why would you? you'd be drinking vinegar eventually, and it would lose its defining characters. depending on the beer, i'd probably have a 1-5 year cellaring window, with 5 probably being on the aggressive side. and some brewers pasteurize their beer before bottling (New Belgium does, i think). so you won't have any bottle fermenting happening and the funk won't increase.

from ratebeer's puzzl:

"Gueuze lambic seems to peak after 2-4 years, and stay in prime condition for again as long. Some gueuze can last more than 10, even 20 years with some luck. They get an earthy, nuttiness too them, the cheesiness comes out more, and they’ll have a pleasent dustiness."

atomeyes wrote: and Belgian: in theory, you can cellar gueuze indefinitely, but why would you? you'd be drinking vinegar eventually, and it would lose its defining characters. depending on the beer, i'd probably have a 1-5 year cellaring window, with 5 probably being on the aggressive side.

Recently, a friend of mine brought back 1974 and 1981 Gueuze from cantillon and Bellevue (before it became crap), and I can attest that even the best gueuze wont stay good forever.

If not affected by oxydation (leaky or dry cork, or a rusted cap), while the acidic-style aromas do tend to stay, the bite from the acids do fade out after 15-20 years. The best 30+ year old gueuze I've ever had was a Cantillon Classic gueuze from 1979. Its nose was almost intact though slightly more subtle, and it still had "some" sour left over, but to the tome of lets say a Lindeman Gueuze. Not the aggressive bite Cantillon we all know and love.

Well after a year or so, the Cuvee Rene has lost only a bit of the sharp lemony sourness, and I would say the funkiness has started to become a bit more prominent.

atomeyes wrote:and Belgian: in theory, you can cellar gueuze indefinitely, but why would you? you'd be drinking vinegar eventually, and it would lose its defining characters. depending on the beer, i'd probably have a 1-5 year cellaring window, with 5 probably being on the aggressive side.

Agreed. That is a good long cellaring time by some people's standards - other people have to try to drink a 20-year-old bottle just so they can pretend to overlook the shortcomings & comment on what a remarkable beer it is despite oxidation, thin flavors and off-tastes.

In fact very FEW beers, generally are meant to gain a lot after even a few years. Usually people say barley wines and super-strong beers from Belgium, etc. Most other medium-strong beers might hold in 3+ years or they might not (there are surprising exceptions, like Westmalle Dubbel.)

Belgian wrote:

atomeyes wrote:and Belgian: in theory, you can cellar gueuze indefinitely, but why would you? you'd be drinking vinegar eventually, and it would lose its defining characters. depending on the beer, i'd probably have a 1-5 year cellaring window, with 5 probably being on the aggressive side.

Agreed. That is a good long cellaring time by some people's standards - other people have to try to drink a 20-year-old bottle just so they can pretend to overlook the shortcomings & comment on what a remarkable beer it is despite oxidation, thin flavors and off-tastes.

In fact very FEW beers, generally are meant to gain a lot after even a few years. Usually people say barley wines and super-strong beers from Belgium, etc. Most other medium-strong beers might hold in 3+ years or they might not (there are surprising exceptions, like Westmalle Dubbel.)

Both Westmalle's age amazingly. Better than any other trappist, save for Orval (not much experience with Westy's mind you). Orval changes a lot, but was drinking 2007's this year with ease. Wonder if the brett has anything to do with it? Same question for the life of gueuze and lambic, or is it all in the acidity? I had a couple of Cantillon several years back that were 5-6 years old that were still great, but I can't speak past that.