Minister of Consumer and Business Services,
During the recent conservative leadership race, there was some mention about all walks of life in Ontario. I am not going to make an esoteric comment about the future of the LCBO. But since the leadership of the province has recently changed and your position in cabinet may not be static in the near future, why not make a high-quality low-cost improvement to the LCBO that will have elite drinking establishments patting you on the back?
Like many wine connoisseurs, there are also beer connoisseurs, and as a personal friend of the non-profit beer afficionado's web-site BarTowel.com, I have discovered through that website that my sentiments of a lacking beer choice in Ontario are being shared by many others. The only path available to Ontario residents to enjoy a wide and varying selection of beers from around the world in classic and new styles is to wait and pray for the LCBO's continuing approval for featured selections from producers who cannot afford to advertise to Ontario's residents at large.
With all due respect, I believe that your position affords you the opportunity to encourage a slightly expanded and more vibrant programme for the future simply by contacting Chris Robertson, (Product Manager of LCBO Beers & Special Markets) to request a little extra effort be made to entice the taste-buds of beer lovers for time-to-come -- even if this means replacing shelf-space currently dedicated to "Bud-Lite" which can otherwise be bought at the Beer Store.
It is a common misconception that beer consumers are entirely composed of rampaging students partying it up at Spring Break in Daytona. But let me tell you, just because I bought a 1L juice carton of Wine for a dollar in Spain, it does not mean I expect TetraPak's to line the shelves in the LCBO.
No policy changes, no legislation, no pandering to the public, just a phone call can do wonders!
Thanks in advance for your understanding,
<I>Immotius</I>
<B>I actually also emailed this to the Hon. Norman Sterling since it is quite unlikely he would see it here</B>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Immotius on 2002-03-26 15:21 ]</font>
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Open letter to the Minister of Consumer and Business Service
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joey_capps
- Bar Fly
- Posts: 592
- Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 7:00 pm
- Location: Waterdown
I think Immotius has something here. What if we did start a petition! There are several beer shows, etc. during the next few months where we could gather a large number of signatures.
The petition would need some rewriting (no offense intended) to articulate a clear and focused vision, perhaps a premium beer store in Toronto. (We would, of course, have to make some sort of case about the demand) Or, pehaps, petition for a greater selection in all LCBO stores. We might want to include Immotius' comment about efficieny versus quality, which I think is absolutely correct.
Any thoughts, Joe.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jcappadocia on 2002-03-26 16:01 ]</font>
The petition would need some rewriting (no offense intended) to articulate a clear and focused vision, perhaps a premium beer store in Toronto. (We would, of course, have to make some sort of case about the demand) Or, pehaps, petition for a greater selection in all LCBO stores. We might want to include Immotius' comment about efficieny versus quality, which I think is absolutely correct.
Any thoughts, Joe.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jcappadocia on 2002-03-26 16:01 ]</font>
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Josh Oakes
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- Contact:
I'll sign on the dotted line. I don't think what we need a greater selection on most LCBO stores - history has shown it will simply collect dust and eventually find its way to Smokeless, Queen's Quay or some other place where people who want the good stuff go to shop. One or two stores are all the market can bear I think and its all any of us need.
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esprit
- Seasoned Drinker
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- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:00 pm
- Location: Esprit Agencies-Toronto
Although I appreciate your sentiments, the first thing the LCBO will tell anyone in government is that this concept has been tried before. SAQ in Quebec opened two beer only stores in Montreal and Quebec City several years ago and, in spite of the fact that Quebec is a far better market for specialty beers than Ontario, both were closed due to unprofitability. The LCBO is well aware of these experiments and therefore do not want to go down that road. Notwithstanding which, I would certainly sign any petition and could probably get a few hundred signatures to boot!
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joey_capps
- Bar Fly
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- Location: Waterdown
While I understand what you are saying, Peter, and I suspect you're right regarding the LCBO's perspective, I'm forced to wonder whether or not the Québec experiment is an appropriate comparison? Two thoughts come to mind:
(1) beer is much more widely available in Québec as it is in convenience and grocery stores and there are already are specialty beer stores, L'Epicier Du March in the Atwater Market (Montréal) Metro Joannette {Montréal) Epicier Des Halles [Québec] to name a few. I understand that none of these stores equals the selection of Premier Gourment in Buffalo or Beers of the World in Rochester, but they do take away from the cachet of the SAQ stores. In fact. couldn't two these two stores be cited as examples of specialty beer stores that work, especially considering their locations and markets?
(2) I think the potential for an "upscale" beer market in Ontario is greater than it is in Québec. When I say upscale, I'm referring generally to the type of marketing that Interbrew is doing with Stella, Hoegaarden, Belle-Vue, and Leffe, the relative merits of these beers notwithstanding. They have in fact sold everything but the beer itself (have you seen the elaborate set up they've been installing in bars to wash glasses?!) They are surrounding these beers with an aura of connoiseurship. What they've done, I think, is marketed a pretenious version of Beer Culture and it's working. Essentially, the specialty beer market would have to piggyback the upscale market.
Just some thoughts. I know we probably won't change the world or even the mind of a few LCBO employees.
Cheers, Joe.
PS This is some beer review, eh!
PPS Why do I notice all my typos only after I've posted my . . . post?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jcappadocia on 2002-03-26 21:18 ]</font>
(1) beer is much more widely available in Québec as it is in convenience and grocery stores and there are already are specialty beer stores, L'Epicier Du March in the Atwater Market (Montréal) Metro Joannette {Montréal) Epicier Des Halles [Québec] to name a few. I understand that none of these stores equals the selection of Premier Gourment in Buffalo or Beers of the World in Rochester, but they do take away from the cachet of the SAQ stores. In fact. couldn't two these two stores be cited as examples of specialty beer stores that work, especially considering their locations and markets?
(2) I think the potential for an "upscale" beer market in Ontario is greater than it is in Québec. When I say upscale, I'm referring generally to the type of marketing that Interbrew is doing with Stella, Hoegaarden, Belle-Vue, and Leffe, the relative merits of these beers notwithstanding. They have in fact sold everything but the beer itself (have you seen the elaborate set up they've been installing in bars to wash glasses?!) They are surrounding these beers with an aura of connoiseurship. What they've done, I think, is marketed a pretenious version of Beer Culture and it's working. Essentially, the specialty beer market would have to piggyback the upscale market.
Just some thoughts. I know we probably won't change the world or even the mind of a few LCBO employees.
Cheers, Joe.
PS This is some beer review, eh!
PPS Why do I notice all my typos only after I've posted my . . . post?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jcappadocia on 2002-03-26 21:18 ]</font>
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Mississauga Matt
- Posts: 270
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joey_capps
- Bar Fly
- Posts: 592
- Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 7:00 pm
- Location: Waterdown
Who said it work work? But it might get a few of us in to some beer festivals for free. 
Seriously, it would be a long process, and there aren't enough of us here to warrant a second look. It really need to be industry driven. What impresses me the most about Premier and BOTW is the selection of US microbrews. A natural proponent, I would think, of a premium beer store would be the Canadian microbrewing industry. For those breweries outside of Ontario, it could certainly create demand and offer a small, economically viable introduction to the Ontario market. It would also allow the Ontaro industry test market products (and of course themselves) in areas outside of their local markets, without the expense of province wide distribution. I know there are a thousand issue imbeded here. But what I think we want is an alternative to the efficiencies of the corporate world the results in the homogeneity of The Beer Store and the LCBO.
Cheer, Joe
PS Gee, I almost sound like I know what I'm talking about. Really I just rambling.
Seriously, it would be a long process, and there aren't enough of us here to warrant a second look. It really need to be industry driven. What impresses me the most about Premier and BOTW is the selection of US microbrews. A natural proponent, I would think, of a premium beer store would be the Canadian microbrewing industry. For those breweries outside of Ontario, it could certainly create demand and offer a small, economically viable introduction to the Ontario market. It would also allow the Ontaro industry test market products (and of course themselves) in areas outside of their local markets, without the expense of province wide distribution. I know there are a thousand issue imbeded here. But what I think we want is an alternative to the efficiencies of the corporate world the results in the homogeneity of The Beer Store and the LCBO.
Cheer, Joe
PS Gee, I almost sound like I know what I'm talking about. Really I just rambling.
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Mississauga Matt
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:00 pm
I believe that was Michael Hancock of Denison's organizing a petition to allow brewpubs to serve their beers at the festival.
I hope he was successful. It would be great to have the beers from Denison's, the Granite Brewery, and others at the festival.
BTW, my favourite moment at last year's festival? When one of the beer babes hawking Rickard's Red came out from behind the booth, full pitcher in hand, and poured the whole lot down the sewer, right in front of all to see.
I don't think she realized the visual she was presenting, but talk about truth in advertising!
I hope he was successful. It would be great to have the beers from Denison's, the Granite Brewery, and others at the festival.
BTW, my favourite moment at last year's festival? When one of the beer babes hawking Rickard's Red came out from behind the booth, full pitcher in hand, and poured the whole lot down the sewer, right in front of all to see.
I don't think she realized the visual she was presenting, but talk about truth in advertising!
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Mississauga Matt
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Michael Vaughn (see http://www.vintageassessments.com) writes a wine column in the Saturday National Post. He wrote the following in this weekend's paper; substitute "fruit wine" with "good beer," and tell me he's not making the same points we're making here.
It is troubling that, in spite of the recent massive increase in Ontario fruit wines - now produced by more than 30 wineries - they still are almost impossible to find at the LCBO. A glance at my local liquor-store shelves reminds me of old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. When I ask the manager about this absence, his answer is that, "Nobody buys them."
"Well, of course nobody buys them," I reply. "You don't sell them."
The sad truth is that the LCBO is now more determined than ever to reduce consumer choice when it comes to wine. Head office recently forced many store managers to arbitrarily remove 20% or more of existing selections. Instead of spreading shelf facings to show more wines, the monopoly has dictated that there shall be more facings of the same old highest-selling wines. Slow movers are put on the bottom shelves, just a step closer to the back door.
The LCBO suggestion that this diminishing selection represents consumer choice is pathetic. It's simply a matter of LCBO greed - maximizing profits at the consumer's expense...
... The answer would be to immediately sanction the opening of privately owned stores dedicated to selling fruit wines. It's done in Montreal, so why not here?...
... Not only will the government be increasing profits through such sales, but these badly needed retail outlets would help dozens of small Ontario businesses succeed.
It is troubling that, in spite of the recent massive increase in Ontario fruit wines - now produced by more than 30 wineries - they still are almost impossible to find at the LCBO. A glance at my local liquor-store shelves reminds me of old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. When I ask the manager about this absence, his answer is that, "Nobody buys them."
"Well, of course nobody buys them," I reply. "You don't sell them."
The sad truth is that the LCBO is now more determined than ever to reduce consumer choice when it comes to wine. Head office recently forced many store managers to arbitrarily remove 20% or more of existing selections. Instead of spreading shelf facings to show more wines, the monopoly has dictated that there shall be more facings of the same old highest-selling wines. Slow movers are put on the bottom shelves, just a step closer to the back door.
The LCBO suggestion that this diminishing selection represents consumer choice is pathetic. It's simply a matter of LCBO greed - maximizing profits at the consumer's expense...
... The answer would be to immediately sanction the opening of privately owned stores dedicated to selling fruit wines. It's done in Montreal, so why not here?...
... Not only will the government be increasing profits through such sales, but these badly needed retail outlets would help dozens of small Ontario businesses succeed.