The Bar Towel

Blasphomet wrote:

atomeyes wrote:

Blasphomet wrote:I don't know what it is, but over the past couple three years, Sami just doesn't interest me. I've stopped cellaring any beer, because I so rarely found it worth it. It gets expensive and had little to no benefit for me except for a few situations (Nickel Brook Cuvee and FM's Paranormal Imperial Pumpkin Ale are a couple I find rad after a year or two). My taste for quads and dubbels has dwindled lately... it's like all I ever want to drink are delicious IPAs, saisons, goses, porters and stouts of all kind... not sure what it is. Even had a Chimay Blue recently and just wanted something else. Maybe it's the fact that St Bernardus, Rochefort, and Chimay Blue are so readily available now... I dunno. Help me? Lol.

those are 2 odd choices of beer to cellar.

st berny abt 12 picks up steam after 1 year. anything longer and i find nothing happens.
orval is infinitely better 2 years after bottling.
Chimay blue - i don't buy fresh. i cellar those and wait wait wait. goal's to have them 5-10 years old. had a 10 year old one once and it was amazing.
Rochefort - don't cellar. drink within a year (arguably. i know)
stouts soften with time. Old Rasputin will be cellared a bit, most likely.

but yeah. i get the feeling you're going about the cellaring thing all wrong.

Totally weird beers... and that's the point. 'Going about it all wrong' is a harsh description considering I've aged many different kind of beers and just don't pick up a noticeable difference. I'm not doing verticals with every beer, and I'm sure you aren't either. I just don't see the point anymore. And that's why I've quit. I find it expensive and unnecessary. Heresy.

it's your beer. you're entitled to do what you want to do with it. but cellaring beer that are probably not best for cellaring isn't the point of cellaring. not snobbing you or lecturing. i'm sincerely curious as to why you chose to cellar those 2. a pumpkin ale would taste like spice and be vegetal. depending on the spices they use, the spice balance would change and not necessarily for the better. i think i had the Nicklebrook beer when it came out and it tasted like a crystal malt bomb. so not sure what cellaring would do to that. i just imagine drinking a sugarbomb.

cellaring beer's sort of like cellaring wine. you cellar wine based on tannins and desire for flavours to develop. tannins mellow with time and, for example, with wine like barolo or Riesling, you get excellent flavour development with cellar time. when you're dropping $50+ for a bottle of barolo, you're not drinking it so it's a palate-neutral sipping wine. and the same would go for some beer. Double Tempest, for example, was way too hot when it came out. that beer needed at least a year in the bottle. i still have some of batch 1 that i haven't had because i sincerely think the sweet spot will be years 3-5. just a palate guess.

and it's not about doing verticals. you taste something and make an educated guess and see where the beer goes. my mentality for cellaring is this: i spend my money on what's good and what will be good. i don't drink for the sake of drinking or for curiosity. and i'd rather grab my $3.50 cellared orval in 2 years than drinkin a $7 pint of meh Ontario beer today. so my guess is that we probably spend the same annually on beer (or i may end up spending less).

I think we need a "beer cellaring" thread

This is what I use as a cellar: http://www.rosehillwinecellars.com/vint ... sn48kfrkp5

It works great, but I end up putting a lot of bottles on their sides.

I have the ghetto version of that.

Upright commercial freezer with a temp controller. 2nd hand freezer off kijiji for 150, temp controller (inkbird) was 50. My only issue now is that winter is coming and the fridge is in my detached garaged. I bought a heat mat so we will see if that can keep the fridge in the 11C/52F range, or above freezing if anything. I'd rather not lug all my stuff inside.

This thread was great help.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/ ... elp.16365/

Craig wrote:Tempest and double tempest is another beer I enjoyed a lot more closer to fresh. A year on it muted the heat nicely, from 2 on it just lost flavor and character.

May be a good case for blending and old stout with a newer one. You could get wine-like smoothness and maturity balanced with some fresher roasty edge and assertive chocolate. Or blend it with a sour to get an old-style ale.

Yeah I had really hoped Tempest was our answer to Courage or one of those really immortal cellar beers.

And this just reminded me about 4 Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout 'expy' 2012. That will be solid.

atomeyes wrote: it's your beer. you're entitled to do what you want to do with it. but cellaring beer that are probably not best for cellaring isn't the point of cellaring. not snobbing you or lecturing. i'm sincerely curious as to why you chose to cellar those 2. a pumpkin ale would taste like spice and be vegetal. depending on the spices they use, the spice balance would change and not necessarily for the better. i think i had the Nicklebrook beer when it came out and it tasted like a crystal malt bomb. so not sure what cellaring would do to that. i just imagine drinking a sugarbomb.

cellaring beer's sort of like cellaring wine. you cellar wine based on tannins and desire for flavours to develop. tannins mellow with time and, for example, with wine like barolo or Riesling, you get excellent flavour development with cellar time. when you're dropping $50+ for a bottle of barolo, you're not drinking it so it's a palate-neutral sipping wine. and the same would go for some beer. Double Tempest, for example, was way too hot when it came out. that beer needed at least a year in the bottle. i still have some of batch 1 that i haven't had because i sincerely think the sweet spot will be years 3-5. just a palate guess.

and it's not about doing verticals. you taste something and make an educated guess and see where the beer goes. my mentality for cellaring is this: i spend my money on what's good and what will be good. i don't drink for the sake of drinking or for curiosity. and i'd rather grab my $3.50 cellared orval in 2 years than drinkin a $7 pint of meh Ontario beer today. so my guess is that we probably spend the same annually on beer (or i may end up spending less).

Many things to get to here but I'll start at the end. I defitely spend less on beer now that I've stopped cellaring.

as for those two beers which I referred to... The Paranormal Imperial Pumpkin and the Nickel Brook Cuvee... I was complimenting them on their changes. The Paranormal after a year because a murky, creamy, full bodied pumpkin ale that was so much pumpkin pie... it was excellent I thought, if you like that sort of thing, and to be honest, I'm not huge on pumpkin beers. I found it really cool after a year. I'll post some pics when I get home or when I remember to show you contrast is appearance alone.

The Nickel Brook Cuvee basically turned into a puckering sour. It was not at all what I was expecting. It was interesting as hell to see that chance so much while retaining a lot of the spice/cinnimon/clove etc that was present when fresh. I've aged a few of those over the years and drank them between 1 and 3 years aged. So yeah, these two beers had the most noticeable and enjoyable evolution.



As for everything else I've aged over the years, the typical stuff. All the trappist ales of verying strength, imperial stouts... you know, the typical stuff. Whether it was 1, 3, 5 years, I just never seemed to have the memory to be like "wow, so much better and interesting than fresh!". Nice that you brought up Double Tempest, because as much as I enjoy Tempest, I never cared that much for Double Tempest. Bought four the first year and drank one fresh, and then one each year for the next few, and again, just didn't notice anything noticeable enough to make it necessary to me. Maybe I don't have the palate for it, or maybe as with most things, taste is subjective. I understand the point of cellaring, and am not criticizing it by any means, and didn't mean for it to come off that way. As you said, we can do whatever we want with our beer.

Belgian wrote:just reminded me about 4 Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout 'expy' 2012. That will be solid.

They are drinking well 4.5 years after supposed expiry. Cant say that about all Imperial (or Imperiled?) Stouts.

This now has some well-knit vinous qualities that marry to the chocolate and dark fruit. A powerful and rounded beverage. Dry-ish now yet full. From my Chimay chalice, it's developing highlights of cognac gold color.

Worth cellaring these or GL Blackout or Victory Storm King.

Drinking Rochefort 10, again - this one exp 2021 so it's from the store recently. This is an absolutely insane beer, probably the reason I buy St. Bernardus 12 less often that I used to but both are great. I didn't even chill this and it has good structure and balance and of course power.
There was an utter feeding frenzy for the Roche 10 a few winters ago but the supply has since impressively fallen into line, to the point where I might as well cellar a few 24's for the inevitable supply hiccup (either way it's good.)

I just use cooler area of my basement (AKA Crawlspace) that sees virtually no light. Which is probably to say I'm storing beer rather than cellaring them.

Two best posts in this thread: "It's your beer" and "i spend my money on what's good and what will be good."

Pulled out a 2013 Schneider Aventinus Eisbock. This goes down way too easy for the beast that it is. Shame it's not back in Ontario this year.

Pulled out a 2013 Tempest last night. Was just what I needed, lotsa dark dried fruit...

Masterplan wrote:Pulled out a 2013 Tempest last night. Was just what I needed, lotsa dark dried fruit...

Had a 2014 at thanksgivings, really enjoyed it. Thirsty and Miserable also saved a 2014 keg for this year which was top notch.

sprague11 wrote:I just use cooler area of my basement (AKA Crawlspace) that sees virtually no light. Which is probably to say I'm storing beer rather than cellaring...

That sounds perfect. I think of 'cellar' as mainly a verb! Can improvise a place. Although under a sink in a warm kitchen, maybe not so much.

An exterior wall or two and/or a bare concrete floor in the basement are probably good conductors (draw excess heat away into the cool earth supporting the foundation.) Heat, vibration and light are the enemies of wine and beer.

Unless you live in a Scottish castle (and bully for you) basements can drift a few degrees warmer in unusual heat during the summer. No big. As long as those temperature shifts are gradual and not a sudden shock they aren't a worry.

Great thread. Like most here, I "cellar" typical Trappist ales, imperial stouts, and high ABV/bottle conditioned releases. I've got a hand full of R10s approaching 4 years old, and a few ABT12 close to 3 that I was considering opening this winter, but I may hold a few back for a number of more years based on the posts here.

On Saturday I opened a 2013 edition of the Double Tempest and it completely blew me away, especially after drinking a fresh 2016 version immediately before. It was smooth as velvet, with chocolate, vanilla, soft bourbon, and had lost all its burn.

Orval from 04/10/2014 (DD/MM/YYYY = October) -t's great, settled down so it's totally clear.

Then another 04/10/2014 - this one I swirled up the sediment a bit, slightly leafy-bitter but good. I would swirl them and let them re-settle for days to a week so they are not totally clear and also not too bitter. YMMV.

Another good one to remember to buy & forget you had.