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Cass wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:40 pm
Certainly looks like only a subset of Ontario brewers submitted, which has been the case for a while.
Yes, it does look like that, doesn't it.
The result that caught my eye was Black Gold's What the Frack finishing ahead of Clifford Porter in the Brown British Beer category. I actually have one that a friend brought me recently. I'll have to try it soon.
This list makes me think of those programs that were fun many years ago where you type in a random word and it generates a band and album name out of gibberish. In this case it's a brewery and a beer name. Hours of fun.
I mean, Granite Brewery and Restaurant? Oktoberfest? Clifford Brewing? Who makes this stuff up? Hilarious.
Brands are for cattle.
Fans are cash cows.
The herd will consume until consumed.
I tend to wonder how relevant these sorts of competitions are these days, especially with many breweries not entering and the sheer volume of beer that is released.
With the democratization of information and opinions it seems that the formal critical role is increasingly replaced with community sourced recommendations and feedback. I've seen it in with things like music and film as well; people (especially younger people nowadays) are more likely to eschew the opinions of traditional critics for the more crowdsourced opinions of social media. From what I can discern it comes as a sort of backlash to what can feel at times like the gatekeeping or pretense of the traditional critical role.
Personally I've valued critical opinions since they are typically represent knowledgeable people who are well trained in their field, but at the same time for many categories I could list a far superior beer to any of these winners (Godspeed for instance would dominate all the lagers in my books). This of course is largely a result of a limited pool of breweries entering in the first place, but I'm curious if people place much weight on things like this nowadays.
I'm sure there are many breweries out there, especially ones that don't get the kind of social media & writer love as others do, which still believe awards shows are a way to break through. As long as those breweries exist, awards shows will still continue as they'll pay for their entries. And then when breweries win and promote it on their social channels, they give credibility to the shows even if beer people know the shows don't represent "the best". And then writers/beer personalities who get asked to judge or host post about it as well, which further fuels credibility even though they are often the ones most skeptical about the completeness of awards shows. It's kind of a funny cycle.
Cass wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:25 am
I'm sure there are many breweries out there, especially ones that don't get the kind of social media & writer love as others do, which still believe awards shows are a way to break through. As long as those breweries exist, awards shows will still continue as they'll pay for their entries. And then when breweries win and promote it on their social channels, they give credibility to the shows even if beer people know the shows don't represent "the best". And then writers/beer personalities who get asked to judge or host post about it as well, which further fuels credibility even though they are often the ones most skeptical about the completeness of awards shows. It's kind of a funny cycle.
That's a good point regarding breweries who might not get the same social media & writer acclaim, I can certainly see how an award like this would be a great promotional talking point.
I suppose in that sense it's just like awards in other industries, the Grammys for instance where the artists submit their music. There's still a prestige to winning those awards even if it rarely represents the best music or at least all the music out there.
seangm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:38 am
I tend to wonder how relevant these sorts of competitions are these days, especially with many breweries not entering and the sheer volume of beer that is released.
With the democratization of information and opinions it seems that the formal critical role is increasingly replaced with community sourced recommendations and feedback. I've seen it in with things like music and film as well; people (especially younger people nowadays) are more likely to eschew the opinions of traditional critics for the more crowdsourced opinions of social media. From what I can discern it comes as a sort of backlash to what can feel at times like the gatekeeping or pretence of the traditional critical role.
Personally I've valued critical opinions since they are typically represent knowledgeable people who are well trained in their field, but at the same time for many categories I could list a far superior beer to any of these winners (Godspeed for instance would dominate all the lagers in my books). This of course is largely a result of a limited pool of breweries entering in the first place, but I'm curious if people place much weight on things like this nowadays.
While I do agree with a lot of what you're saying and generally find the OBA's to be not the best representation of quality in the province, Especially given the conspicuous absence of so many trendy/popular Ontario breweries I do question the last paragraph you wrote. I'm just curious if you've tasted any of the lagers that won awards? You never know maybe there is a dark horse out in the province making lagers equal to those of Godspeed. I do love Godpseed and think they make some excellent beer they are by far the only competent lager brewer in this province. Tooth and nail for example make excellent lagers though admittedly they can be batchy. But when Vim and Vigour is on it is one of the best. Juist my two cents.
seangm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:38 am
I tend to wonder how relevant these sorts of competitions are these days, especially with many breweries not entering and the sheer volume of beer that is released.
With the democratization of information and opinions it seems that the formal critical role is increasingly replaced with community sourced recommendations and feedback. I've seen it in with things like music and film as well; people (especially younger people nowadays) are more likely to eschew the opinions of traditional critics for the more crowdsourced opinions of social media. From what I can discern it comes as a sort of backlash to what can feel at times like the gatekeeping or pretence of the traditional critical role.
Personally I've valued critical opinions since they are typically represent knowledgeable people who are well trained in their field, but at the same time for many categories I could list a far superior beer to any of these winners (Godspeed for instance would dominate all the lagers in my books). This of course is largely a result of a limited pool of breweries entering in the first place, but I'm curious if people place much weight on things like this nowadays.
While I do agree with a lot of what you're saying and generally find the OBA's to be not the best representation of quality in the province, Especially given the conspicuous absence of so many trendy/popular Ontario breweries I do question the last paragraph you wrote. I'm just curious if you've tasted any of the lagers that won awards? You never know maybe there is a dark horse out in the province making lagers equal to those of Godspeed. I do love Godpseed and think they make some excellent beer they are by far the only competent lager brewer in this province. Tooth and nail for example make excellent lagers though admittedly they can be batchy. But when Vim and Vigour is on it is one of the best. Juist my two cents.
Sonnen Hill is killing the lager game, give them a try
seangm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:38 am
I tend to wonder how relevant these sorts of competitions are these days, especially with many breweries not entering and the sheer volume of beer that is released.
With the democratization of information and opinions it seems that the formal critical role is increasingly replaced with community sourced recommendations and feedback. I've seen it in with things like music and film as well; people (especially younger people nowadays) are more likely to eschew the opinions of traditional critics for the more crowdsourced opinions of social media. From what I can discern it comes as a sort of backlash to what can feel at times like the gatekeeping or pretence of the traditional critical role.
Personally I've valued critical opinions since they are typically represent knowledgeable people who are well trained in their field, but at the same time for many categories I could list a far superior beer to any of these winners (Godspeed for instance would dominate all the lagers in my books). This of course is largely a result of a limited pool of breweries entering in the first place, but I'm curious if people place much weight on things like this nowadays.
While I do agree with a lot of what you're saying and generally find the OBA's to be not the best representation of quality in the province, Especially given the conspicuous absence of so many trendy/popular Ontario breweries I do question the last paragraph you wrote. I'm just curious if you've tasted any of the lagers that won awards? You never know maybe there is a dark horse out in the province making lagers equal to those of Godspeed. I do love Godpseed and think they make some excellent beer they are by far the only competent lager brewer in this province. Tooth and nail for example make excellent lagers though admittedly they can be batchy. But when Vim and Vigour is on it is one of the best. Juist my two cents.
Sonnen Hill is killing the lager game, give them a try
Totally Agree Sonnen Hill is great! I really like their funky saisons as well as their lagers I recently had their smoked lager and the Honey lager collabe they did with Collective Arts Toronto pub and both were excellent.
MetalHead wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:37 pm
While I do agree with a lot of what you're saying and generally find the OBA's to be not the best representation of quality in the province, Especially given the conspicuous absence of so many trendy/popular Ontario breweries I do question the last paragraph you wrote. I'm just curious if you've tasted any of the lagers that won awards? You never know maybe there is a dark horse out in the province making lagers equal to those of Godspeed. I do love Godpseed and think they make some excellent beer they are by far the only competent lager brewer in this province. Tooth and nail for example make excellent lagers though admittedly they can be batchy. But when Vim and Vigour is on it is one of the best. Juist my two cents.
That is fair, especially regarding Sonnen Hill who I have not yet tried. I've had a number on that list though, or at least enough beers from most of the breweries listed to be surprised that some of them would win assuming every beer could be judged. Tooth and Nail I have tried, I'd agree with your assessment that they're batchy as I was about 50/50 on liking the beers I tried.
I've had a lot of beer from not only Ontario, but also the country and rest of the world so I feel somewhat comfortable with my assessment, but at the same time I recognize I'll never be able to try everything out there; it's likely there are even better ones to be found. There are definitely some solid beers on the list of winners too, for what it's worth my initial judgement might have come across a bit harsh.
MetalHead wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:37 pm
While I do agree with a lot of what you're saying and generally find the OBA's to be not the best representation of quality in the province, Especially given the conspicuous absence of so many trendy/popular Ontario breweries I do question the last paragraph you wrote. I'm just curious if you've tasted any of the lagers that won awards? You never know maybe there is a dark horse out in the province making lagers equal to those of Godspeed. I do love Godpseed and think they make some excellent beer they are by far the only competent lager brewer in this province. Tooth and nail for example make excellent lagers though admittedly they can be batchy. But when Vim and Vigour is on it is one of the best. Juist my two cents.
That is fair, especially regarding Sonnen Hill who I have not yet tried. I've had a number on that list though, or at least enough beers from most of the breweries listed to be surprised that some of them would win assuming every beer could be judged. Tooth and Nail I have tried, I'd agree with your assessment that they're batchy as I was about 50/50 on liking the beers I tried.
I've had a lot of beer from not only Ontario, but also the country and rest of the world so I feel somewhat comfortable with my assessment, but at the same time I recognize I'll never be able to try everything out there; it's likely there are even better ones to be found. There are definitely some solid beers on the list of winners too, for what it's worth my initial judgement might have come across a bit harsh.
Was by no means trying to come off critical in any way. Taste is of course always subjective and we all like what we like. I appreciate the nice response. It's nice to have constructive polite discussions on the internet, a rare thing to find these days! One of the reasons I enjoy this forma and will try and be more active on it. Cheers!
MetalHead wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:37 pm
While I do agree with a lot of what you're saying and generally find the OBA's to be not the best representation of quality in the province, Especially given the conspicuous absence of so many trendy/popular Ontario breweries I do question the last paragraph you wrote. I'm just curious if you've tasted any of the lagers that won awards? You never know maybe there is a dark horse out in the province making lagers equal to those of Godspeed. I do love Godpseed and think they make some excellent beer they are by far the only competent lager brewer in this province. Tooth and nail for example make excellent lagers though admittedly they can be batchy. But when Vim and Vigour is on it is one of the best. Juist my two cents.
That is fair, especially regarding Sonnen Hill who I have not yet tried. I've had a number on that list though, or at least enough beers from most of the breweries listed to be surprised that some of them would win assuming every beer could be judged. Tooth and Nail I have tried, I'd agree with your assessment that they're batchy as I was about 50/50 on liking the beers I tried.
I've had a lot of beer from not only Ontario, but also the country and rest of the world so I feel somewhat comfortable with my assessment, but at the same time I recognize I'll never be able to try everything out there; it's likely there are even better ones to be found. There are definitely some solid beers on the list of winners too, for what it's worth my initial judgement might have come across a bit harsh.
Was by no means trying to come off critical in any way. Taste is of course always subjective and we all like what we like. I appreciate the nice response. It's nice to have constructive polite discussions on the internet, a rare thing to find these days! One of the reasons I enjoy this forma and will try and be more active on it. Cheers!
Haha yes, indeed it can be rare to find civilized discourse nowadays! Definitely a great forum for that, it's nice to see that discussions have picked up lately.
seangm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:27 pm
Haha yes, indeed it can be rare to find civilized discourse nowadays! Definitely a great forum for that, it's nice to see that discussions have picked up lately.
Probably another good reason to keep this off Factlessbook.
Brands are for cattle.
Fans are cash cows.
The herd will consume until consumed.