LCBO Super Premium Beers Release

[Bobbyok]

Apparently the LCBO has no shortage of submissions for seasonal beers this year, so that's a good thing for the consumer.

This is exactly the problem - those that are interested in getting their beer on the shelves shouldn't have to apply and get turned down when people are actually asking for more selection. Surely most that are applying to get on shelves have judged that there is demand for their product. Put them on the shelves and let the consumer decide which ones stay.

[Bytowner]

Interesting stuff.

I should clarify a couple things. I don't believe Molson and Labatts actively try to turn 13 year olds into alcoholics, I was just pointing out that the argument that the Beer Store keeps us safer than your average independent retailer is silly. People believe the government runs the Beer Store, if they knew that it was a monopoly, I think they too would realize that this argument, last used in the provincial election, doesn't pass the smell test.

As for LCBO staff, I simply speak from experience. I have yet to meet an LCBO employee on the floor (they're a little better at the cash) who was not an arse to me, especially the younger guys. I'm sure there are some good employees out there, I just haven't met them in Ottawa yet.

Also, I think my aim was a little off on my post. Criticizing the selection is one thing, I agree that the Beer Store is a lost cause (yes, you can get your beer on the shelf at the Beer Store, if you have the cash to spend, which most independents don't) so you might as well petition the LCBO for a wider selection. However, things often turn into "privatize the LCBO!" when instead the focus should be changing the Beer Store, I think we're on much firmer ground there.

All told, I actually enjoy the shopping experience at the LCBO. Their excellent marketing, great displays, bright stores. If they stopped being THE liquor store in Ontario I would probably still go there for my wine and liquor needs.

[detritus]

Also, I think my aim was a little off on my post. Criticizing the selection is one thing, I agree that the Beer Store is a lost cause (yes, you can get your beer on the shelf at the Beer Store, if you have the cash to spend, which most independents don't) so you might as well petition the LCBO for a wider selection. However, things often turn into "privatize the LCBO!" when instead the focus should be changing the Beer Store, I think we're on much firmer ground there.

Changing the beer store? Why? There's nothing particularly wrong with the Beer Store. The problem is with the regulatory framework under which it gets a virtual monopoly on beer sales. If the market were opened to competition, I doubt very many peopple would have a problem with the big brewers owning a retail chain. (Well, maybe some people would, especially since they'd have such a head start on the market, but in principle there's nothing wrong with it.)

The problem is with the regulatory framework, which is driven by politics. In fact, I don't think the rallying call is so much "privatize the LCBO!", as it is "open the market to competition!". Again, I don't think many people would have a problem with the government staying in the retail game, so long as the private sector was allowed to compete on an equal footing.

All told, I actually enjoy the shopping experience at the LCBO. Their excellent marketing, great displays, bright stores. If they stopped being THE liquor store in Ontario I would probably still go there for my wine and liquor needs.

Really? I'd bet you wouldn't. First, they probably wouldn't be the most aggresively priced (although this would depend on whether the importing/distribution side was also opened to competition). Second, any big centre (certainly Toronto and Ottawa, and probably Hamilton, Mississauga, Oakville, Kingston, London, etc.) would have one or more really great specialty retailers with all that good stuff you want (marketing, dispalys, bright stores, etc.) plus better product. This is the case in all major US cities, and lots of smaller ones where there's a market for it.

The situation would probably be different outside of the big markets, although if the big grocery retailers (Loblaws, Walmart, Sobeys) got into the game, I'd think their distribution networks could easily handle getting good selection out to whereever they have stores. You think Loblaws couldn't do at least as good a job as the LCBO marketing and displaying mass-market beer and wine?

-Josh

[shintriad]

I guess my beef is that the LCBO allows for the Beer Store quasi-monopoly to even exist.

Hard to really blame the conglomerates for taking advantage of it (well, I do anyway), because why wouldn't they when they have a free pass from the government. The LCBO is hypocritical to even let the Beer Store store do its thing on a large scale, and nobody else.

At the very least, there ought to be an equivalent to the Wine Rack for the OCB....

[detritus]

I guess my beef is that the LCBO allows for the Beer Store quasi-monopoly to even exist.

This isn't quite right. The provincial government allows them both to exist. The LCBO itself doesn't even regulate the market, the AGCO does that.

Hard to really blame the conglomerates for taking advantage of it (well, I do anyway), because why wouldn't they when they have a free pass from the government. The LCBO is hypocritical to even let the Beer Store store do its thing on a large scale, and nobody else.

At the very least, there ought to be an equivalent to the Wine Rack for the OCB....

Yes, that's a pretty obvious first step. I'm curious if the OCB is interested in doing that kind of thing, and if so, what the government reaction would be?

-Josh

[Bytowner]

Changing the beer store? Why?

By change I actually meant the system, and don't act like the brewer's are just taking advantage of the situation. It's naive to think that the big fellas aren't spending a mint on lobbyists to keep the status quo, Molson's and Labbatt's aren't innocents here.

Really? I'd bet you wouldn't.

And you'd lose. I lived in Europe for two years and the states for one, I still enjoy shopping in the LCBO.

[Bytowner]

Yes, that's a pretty obvious first step. I'm curious if the OCB is interested in doing that kind of thing, and if so, what the government reaction would be?

-Josh

Yes they are, or at least they have a facebook group that says they are (I'm assuming it's run by them or someone associated with them). The government reaction, if there wasn't enough support from the public, would be the same as it was during the last election, nonsense about Ontario's morals etc. Politicians need to fear losing votes more than losing those great parties the macros throw. I think we can all agree OCB retail stores would be great. Why there are two different rules for wine and premium beers is beyond me.

[detritus]

Yes, that's a pretty obvious first step. I'm curious if the OCB is interested in doing that kind of thing, and if so, what the government reaction would be?

-Josh

Yes they are, or at least they have a facebook group that says they are (I'm assuming it's run by them or someone associated with them). The government reaction, if there wasn't enough support from the public, would be the same as it was during the last election, nonsense about Ontario's morals etc. Politicians need to fear losing votes more than losing those great parties the macros throw. I think we can all agree OCB retail stores would be great. Why there are two different rules for wine and premium beers is beyond me.

They should put a flyer in all those OCB mix-packs with information on how to contact one's MPP and complain about the issue.

-Josh

[detritus]

By change I actually meant the system, and don't act like the brewer's are just taking advantage of the situation. It's naive to think that the big fellas aren't spending a mint on lobbyists to keep the status quo, Molson's and Labbatt's aren't innocents here.

Agreed. I just wanted to clarify what roles the various actors (provincial government, AGCO, LCBO and Brewers Retail have). I think most people don't understand the set up particularly well.

Really? I'd bet you wouldn't.

And you'd lose. I lived in Europe for two years and the states for one, I still enjoy shopping in the LCBO.

Yeah, ok. I think you'd be in the minority though. Particularly in Toronto (I know you're in Ottawa) I can't imagine we wouldn't get a good number of shops that could do at least as well as the LCBO on the marketing and pricing side and surpass them by a long shot on selection.

-Josh

[Bytowner]

Hm, maybe. Maybe I was just happy to have access to some good Canadian wines again.

Anyways, can't wait for the Young's. I don't think it counts against my New Years' resolution about chocolate... not in my books anyways.

[Belgian]

can't wait for the Young's. I don't think it counts against my New Years' resolution about chocolate... not in my books anyways.

Not any more than a German Doppelbock counts against the fasting monk.

Hey, if the LCBO is going to f-k us out of Weltenburg for good, will they for the love of bock bring in some Ayinger or Andechser, any decent subsitute?

[Belgian]

Apparently the LCBO has no shortage of submissions for seasonal beers this year, so that's a good thing for the consumer.

This is exactly the problem - those that are interested in getting their beer on the shelves shouldn't have to apply and get turned down when people are actually asking for more selection. Surely most that are applying to get on shelves have judged that there is demand for their product. Put them on the shelves and let the consumer decide which ones stay.

You booze dollars working against you?

[esprit]

Weltenburger Asam-Bock is part of the spring release and it's in the warehouse and raring to get on LCBO shelves as soon as the promo starts. As to Ayinger, we'll be bringing in a batch of Celebrator Doppelbock through Consignment sometime after the spring promo ends and we hope to be able to offer it to the LCBO for 2009.

[Belgian]

Weltenburger Asam-Bock is part of the spring release and it's in the warehouse and raring to get on LCBO shelves as soon as the promo starts. As to Ayinger, we'll be bringing in a batch of Celebrator Doppelbock through Consignment sometime after the spring promo ends and we hope to be able to offer it to the LCBO for 2009.

Ahh I misunderstood, I thought the earth-freindly Welltenburg packaging was some big issue for them! That's a fantastic, earthy doppelbock to have available.

Good luck with the Ayinger Celebrator too, I don't remember the flavor profile that well however it is ostensibly the best thing going Doppel-wise. For me the Welty was always as good as anything.

[Derek]

Hey, if the LCBO is going to f-k us out of Weltenburg for good, will they for the love of bock bring in some Ayinger or Andechser, any decent subsitute?

Andechs is pretty small. They might be able to do a seasonal... or maybe they could just get the Brick to brew it?

When I walked past Spaten, it appeared to be about 6 times the size of the Labatts in London. Their Optimator isn't quite as good as the Celebrator, but it's cheaper in the US, and I'd certainly welcome it as a regular.

From the big breweries, Korbinian would be my first choice, followed closely by the Celebrator. Optimator, Maximator or Triumphator would certainly be a treat as well.

That said, I thought the Weltenberger was step up from Salvator, so I'm looking forward to it in the spring!