OK, in November I'm taking a trip that I have always wanted to do - visiting London and Brussels. I've been to London before (not for a very long time) and never been to Belgium.
So, I'm hoping that all the knowledgeable folk around here could give me some beer suggestions. What good pubs are there in London and Brussels? Are there other cities around these worth visiting? (thinking about Bruges) Any brewery tours worth it? Anybody know of "bartowel-like" sites for London & Brussels?
Thanks,
Cass
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cass on 2003-10-06 10:32 ]</font>
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London & Brussels Advice Wanted
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Uncle Bobby
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 8:00 pm
- Location: East End Toronto
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Cass,
Although it has been a long time since I lived in London, there was one crawl I always used to do with guests from Canada which was a lot of fun both in terms of the seeing the sights and beer. The pubs are still there -- they were all over 200 years old. It is a handful of riverside pubs in the East End, all of which have great views, interesting histories and reasonably good beer as I recall.
You start on the north side of the Thames at Wapping tube on the East London line. The Prospect of Whitby is about 500m east of the station. It has a solid pewter bar and lots of nooks and crannies in which to find a table. The place can really heave, particularly at Sunday lunch, which, if you don't mind the cigarette smoke, can be a really great way to meet people. Many real ales on selection. Medium size patio with a great view of the river.
400m west of Wapping station is the Town of Ramsgate, an okay pub which does not stand out in my mind nearly as much. Both pubs are in a kind of yuppy district of loft condos in old riverside warehouses.
Then take the tube one stop south under the river -- the stations themselves look like the sets of horror films -- to Rotherhithe. From there you can check out the (Famous) Angel and The Mayflower. (The Mayflower is just near the place where a scene from Fish Called Wanda was filmed -- the one where Kevin Kline hangs John Clesse out of the window upside down.)
Once again, not clear about the beer selection although it tended to be pretty good at both places. However the pubs were strong on atmosphere, which the managment always played up to some extent, especially the nautical/smuggling angle. And they offered good views of the river for photo-ops.
The Mitre off Holborn, if you can find it, used to always be a treat, too.
And as always, get the CAMRA good pub guide.
I am going to Belgium myself next week on a rowing and beer trip. I am headed for Liège, which is supposed to have a great pub district, le Carré. Liège is near to where Achouffe and Jupiler are brewed, too.
Apparently there is also a Musée de la Bière is Brussels. Unfortunately we have just missed Gueuze season. Will ask my Belgian friend for more suggestions for you.
-Uncle Bobby
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-10-07 15:28 ]</font>
Although it has been a long time since I lived in London, there was one crawl I always used to do with guests from Canada which was a lot of fun both in terms of the seeing the sights and beer. The pubs are still there -- they were all over 200 years old. It is a handful of riverside pubs in the East End, all of which have great views, interesting histories and reasonably good beer as I recall.
You start on the north side of the Thames at Wapping tube on the East London line. The Prospect of Whitby is about 500m east of the station. It has a solid pewter bar and lots of nooks and crannies in which to find a table. The place can really heave, particularly at Sunday lunch, which, if you don't mind the cigarette smoke, can be a really great way to meet people. Many real ales on selection. Medium size patio with a great view of the river.
400m west of Wapping station is the Town of Ramsgate, an okay pub which does not stand out in my mind nearly as much. Both pubs are in a kind of yuppy district of loft condos in old riverside warehouses.
Then take the tube one stop south under the river -- the stations themselves look like the sets of horror films -- to Rotherhithe. From there you can check out the (Famous) Angel and The Mayflower. (The Mayflower is just near the place where a scene from Fish Called Wanda was filmed -- the one where Kevin Kline hangs John Clesse out of the window upside down.)
Once again, not clear about the beer selection although it tended to be pretty good at both places. However the pubs were strong on atmosphere, which the managment always played up to some extent, especially the nautical/smuggling angle. And they offered good views of the river for photo-ops.
The Mitre off Holborn, if you can find it, used to always be a treat, too.
And as always, get the CAMRA good pub guide.
I am going to Belgium myself next week on a rowing and beer trip. I am headed for Liège, which is supposed to have a great pub district, le Carré. Liège is near to where Achouffe and Jupiler are brewed, too.
Apparently there is also a Musée de la Bière is Brussels. Unfortunately we have just missed Gueuze season. Will ask my Belgian friend for more suggestions for you.
-Uncle Bobby
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-10-07 15:28 ]</font>
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PierreBiere
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 7:00 pm
- Location: Oakville
Hi Cass,
I spent some time in Brussels during my honeymoon a couple of years ago and did a bunch of research ahead of time that I think you'll be able to use.
The guide that I used the most was Tim Webb's "Good Beer Guide to Belgium and Holland" for it's ratings of the beers and bars of the Benelux.
The authoritative source that everyone refers to for Belgian bars, including Tim Webb and Stephen Beaumont, is Stephen D'Arcy's "The Selective Guide to Brussels Bars". It's the most comprehensive guide you'll find, so they say, and it's written by the founder (?) of the Brussels branch of CAMRA. See below on how to order his guide.
Speaking of Stephen Beaumont, check out his article "Ten Days in Belgium" for lots of great tips: http://www.worldofbeer.com/features/feature2000041.html
My favourite beer restaurant in Brussels was In 't Spinnekopke, which makes very traditional Belgian food and every course is made with beer in some degree, even the ice cream. They also have a great beer list, needless to say. Read here for more: http://www.beeradvocate.com/beerfly/user_reviews/3302/
Also highly recommended is La Mort Subite, birthplace of the lambics of the same name, I believe. It's worth the visit for the decor alone, which hasn't changed for 100 years.
Unfortunately I didn't make it to the Cantillon brewery when I was there, but you probably should if you have time.
Other good sources:
http://www.realbeer.com/edu/belgium/travel/
Roger Protz on beer drinking in Antwerp: http://www.protzonbeer.com/documents/27660-001436.html
Stephen D'Arcy's email address was Stephen.D'Arcy@cec.eu.int. when I contacted him but I can't guarantee it's still accurate. At the time I received his guide he was only mailing out hard copies and only accepeted cold hard U.S. cash by mail - no cheques or money orders. Took about 2 weeks for me to get it - hopefully this isn't a problem for you.
"Selective Guide to Brussels Bars", $8 (U.S),
available from Stephen D'Arcy:
67 Rue des Atrebates, B-1040, Brussels,Belgium
It's $8.00 US cash - sorry no Canadian dollars!
By airmail - maybe 7/10 days.
I know you'll have a great time and am totally envious. Cheers!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PierreBiere on 2003-10-06 17:30 ]</font>
I spent some time in Brussels during my honeymoon a couple of years ago and did a bunch of research ahead of time that I think you'll be able to use.
The guide that I used the most was Tim Webb's "Good Beer Guide to Belgium and Holland" for it's ratings of the beers and bars of the Benelux.
The authoritative source that everyone refers to for Belgian bars, including Tim Webb and Stephen Beaumont, is Stephen D'Arcy's "The Selective Guide to Brussels Bars". It's the most comprehensive guide you'll find, so they say, and it's written by the founder (?) of the Brussels branch of CAMRA. See below on how to order his guide.
Speaking of Stephen Beaumont, check out his article "Ten Days in Belgium" for lots of great tips: http://www.worldofbeer.com/features/feature2000041.html
My favourite beer restaurant in Brussels was In 't Spinnekopke, which makes very traditional Belgian food and every course is made with beer in some degree, even the ice cream. They also have a great beer list, needless to say. Read here for more: http://www.beeradvocate.com/beerfly/user_reviews/3302/
Also highly recommended is La Mort Subite, birthplace of the lambics of the same name, I believe. It's worth the visit for the decor alone, which hasn't changed for 100 years.
Unfortunately I didn't make it to the Cantillon brewery when I was there, but you probably should if you have time.
Other good sources:
http://www.realbeer.com/edu/belgium/travel/
Roger Protz on beer drinking in Antwerp: http://www.protzonbeer.com/documents/27660-001436.html
Stephen D'Arcy's email address was Stephen.D'Arcy@cec.eu.int. when I contacted him but I can't guarantee it's still accurate. At the time I received his guide he was only mailing out hard copies and only accepeted cold hard U.S. cash by mail - no cheques or money orders. Took about 2 weeks for me to get it - hopefully this isn't a problem for you.
"Selective Guide to Brussels Bars", $8 (U.S),
available from Stephen D'Arcy:
67 Rue des Atrebates, B-1040, Brussels,Belgium
It's $8.00 US cash - sorry no Canadian dollars!
By airmail - maybe 7/10 days.
I know you'll have a great time and am totally envious. Cheers!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PierreBiere on 2003-10-06 17:30 ]</font>
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Josh Oakes
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- Contact:
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Uncle Bobby
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 8:00 pm
- Location: East End Toronto
- Contact:
Cass,
A couple more recommendations for London...
This is probably going to seem hopelessly patronizing, but you know to look for a “Free House”, right? Free Houses are those pubs not associated with any one particular brewery and therefore can buy their beer from whichever brewery they please. They usually offer quality beers and can be hard to find, particularly in the West End where all the clubs are. (Club-goers drink crappy bottled lager from Europe and the Americas as though it’s something clever. It's hilarious.)
I have also found a new website which has some pretty good listings, including real ale pubs and riverside pubs in London. http://www.pubs.com Again, this may seem patronizing, but it’s the first I’ve seen of it. And all of the pubs listed are reasonably central, too. Good cross-referencing, too, with pubs listed by beer, proximity to famous sites and by postal code.
Two additional recommendations from the Real Ale listing on pubs.com, which have a beautiful historical element...The Cittie of Yorke in High Holborn. Because of the cursive, old English lettering, the sign looks like it’s spelling out the “Cittie of Dorke”. The pub has a beautiful vaulted ceiling and a busy atmosphere – it’s not too far from the Courts at Old Bailey and the Inns of Courts (the entire legal profession, basically).
Also try to see the George in Borough High Street on the south side of London Bridge. It is a very old coaching inn (i.e. staging point for stage coaches), slightly recessed from the street with a small yard in front. To the North American eye, the place looks like a kind of superannuated motel, but this kind of construction has been largely lost in the UK. It has been used periodically over the last 50 years as a set by the British movie industry. If you have a literary mind, too, it is just north of the place where Chaucer marshalled his pilgrims for the Canterbury Tales, a pub called the Tabard which existed from the 12th to the 19th century, and which is still marked by Tabard Street. It is also near the site of the old Marshalsea Prison, a real 19th century debtors prison which was the setting for much of Dickens’ “Little Dorrit”. And as long as you are in the neighborhood, try to drink at the Market Porter and the Anchor, too.
-Uncle Bobby
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-10-07 12:56 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-10-07 15:29 ]</font>
A couple more recommendations for London...
This is probably going to seem hopelessly patronizing, but you know to look for a “Free House”, right? Free Houses are those pubs not associated with any one particular brewery and therefore can buy their beer from whichever brewery they please. They usually offer quality beers and can be hard to find, particularly in the West End where all the clubs are. (Club-goers drink crappy bottled lager from Europe and the Americas as though it’s something clever. It's hilarious.)
I have also found a new website which has some pretty good listings, including real ale pubs and riverside pubs in London. http://www.pubs.com Again, this may seem patronizing, but it’s the first I’ve seen of it. And all of the pubs listed are reasonably central, too. Good cross-referencing, too, with pubs listed by beer, proximity to famous sites and by postal code.
Two additional recommendations from the Real Ale listing on pubs.com, which have a beautiful historical element...The Cittie of Yorke in High Holborn. Because of the cursive, old English lettering, the sign looks like it’s spelling out the “Cittie of Dorke”. The pub has a beautiful vaulted ceiling and a busy atmosphere – it’s not too far from the Courts at Old Bailey and the Inns of Courts (the entire legal profession, basically).
Also try to see the George in Borough High Street on the south side of London Bridge. It is a very old coaching inn (i.e. staging point for stage coaches), slightly recessed from the street with a small yard in front. To the North American eye, the place looks like a kind of superannuated motel, but this kind of construction has been largely lost in the UK. It has been used periodically over the last 50 years as a set by the British movie industry. If you have a literary mind, too, it is just north of the place where Chaucer marshalled his pilgrims for the Canterbury Tales, a pub called the Tabard which existed from the 12th to the 19th century, and which is still marked by Tabard Street. It is also near the site of the old Marshalsea Prison, a real 19th century debtors prison which was the setting for much of Dickens’ “Little Dorrit”. And as long as you are in the neighborhood, try to drink at the Market Porter and the Anchor, too.
-Uncle Bobby
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-10-07 12:56 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-10-07 15:29 ]</font>
I too am off to Belgium this week.
Thanks PierreBiere for the recomendations.
Uncle Bobby: I am staying in Spa at the Balmoral from October 10-17th, just south of Liege. If you want to get together for a beer in Liege one evening give me a call at the hotel (+32 87 79 21 41 and ask for my room listed under 'Skeggs').
It should be an event filled week, I have tours planned with Chimay, Orval, Duvel and Mort Subite. I hope to stop in and see Chouffe as well. I have got a few hot laps planned at the famous Spa-Francorchamps F1 race track, which I will be sure to do before I visit the breweries.
Other than that, it will be beer, cheese, chocolate, and frites.
I will let you all know how it goes,
Geoffrey.
Thanks PierreBiere for the recomendations.
Uncle Bobby: I am staying in Spa at the Balmoral from October 10-17th, just south of Liege. If you want to get together for a beer in Liege one evening give me a call at the hotel (+32 87 79 21 41 and ask for my room listed under 'Skeggs').
It should be an event filled week, I have tours planned with Chimay, Orval, Duvel and Mort Subite. I hope to stop in and see Chouffe as well. I have got a few hot laps planned at the famous Spa-Francorchamps F1 race track, which I will be sure to do before I visit the breweries.
Other than that, it will be beer, cheese, chocolate, and frites.
I will let you all know how it goes,
Geoffrey.
Stephen D'Arcy's new contact info is as follows:
Stephen D'Arcy
CAMRA Brussels
16 rue Willems (apartment 2013)
B-1210 St. Josse-Ten-Noode
Brussels
Belgium
Tel. (day) (+32.2) 299.02.49, (eve) 736.72.18.
Fax: (+32.2) 295.86.25.
E-mail: Stephen.D'Arcy@cec.eu.int.
Cass, I will loan you my copy when I return so you can benefit from it during your trip.
Stephen D'Arcy
CAMRA Brussels
16 rue Willems (apartment 2013)
B-1210 St. Josse-Ten-Noode
Brussels
Belgium
Tel. (day) (+32.2) 299.02.49, (eve) 736.72.18.
Fax: (+32.2) 295.86.25.
E-mail: Stephen.D'Arcy@cec.eu.int.
Cass, I will loan you my copy when I return so you can benefit from it during your trip.
Cass I have one more pub in London that you should drink in: The Lamb 94 Lambs Conduit Street(WC1 Bloomsbury)Russell Street tube. This is a Young's house and the real ales are
Young's bitter, Special,Triple A, and Young's seasonal ales. This is a small Victorian pub with great atmosphere.
If you have time you should get out of London and head to the village of Great Tew Oxfordshire. At the centre of this delightful Cotswold village is the Falkland Arms. This pub is thatched(as is all of Great Tew) serves Wadworth 6X, IPA,four guest ales and real cider. To me this is the quintessential English pub and I had a spot on pint of Hook Norton Bitter there. check out http://www.falklandarms.org.uk
Young's bitter, Special,Triple A, and Young's seasonal ales. This is a small Victorian pub with great atmosphere.
If you have time you should get out of London and head to the village of Great Tew Oxfordshire. At the centre of this delightful Cotswold village is the Falkland Arms. This pub is thatched(as is all of Great Tew) serves Wadworth 6X, IPA,four guest ales and real cider. To me this is the quintessential English pub and I had a spot on pint of Hook Norton Bitter there. check out http://www.falklandarms.org.uk
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Uncle Bobby
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 8:00 pm
- Location: East End Toronto
- Contact:
Geoff,
Uncle Bobby: I am staying in Spa at the Balmoral from October 10-17th, just south of Liege. If you want to get together for a beer in Liege one evening give me a call at the hotel (+32 87 79 21 41 and ask for my room listed under 'Skeggs').
Thanks for the offer, but we do not arrive until the 15th, and we then must have a few training rows on the Meuse with the rest of our crew. On the 18th I am in the rowing marathon on the Meuse in Liège. (Approx. 42km. Five times around the island of the old town. My anticipation is slowly giving way to dread.) I am hesitant to drink (other than to be socialable) before the race. It is often easier just to go completely dry for a couple of days before one of these things.
However the HQ for the three rowing clubs in Liège is right at the southern tip of the island. It is the Départ/Arrivée of the race. And apparently it has a lovely bar with a panoramic view of river where it splits and the boats have to turn. Check it out if you get the chance.
It sounds like you know your way around and may have done this before. Any recommendations you can offer would be much appreciated. *If you had the opportunity to visit only one brewery, which one would it be?* Achouffe and St-Feullien are priorities for me.
I have tours planned with Chimay, Orval, Duvel and Mort Subite. I hope to stop in and see Chouffe as well. I have got a few hot laps planned at the famous Spa-Francorchamps F1 race track, which I will be sure to do before I visit the breweries.
I have almost a full week to make up for the few (relatively) dry days before the race. My hosts are anxious to take me around and show off Belgian hospitality, especially the liquid version because they know that is a priority for me. I'm looking forward to a really great time.
Thanks again for the offer. And enjoy yourself. Perhaps we can hook up once we are all back.
Regards,
Brian
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dhurtubise
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2001 7:00 pm
Cass, I was in Brussels as a beer tourist this summer. I believe the most important stop you can make is in Beersels, about 12km south of the city. You can easily take a train to the city (just not on Sunday since public transportation there is really hard on the holy day). The brewery (and café) in question is Drie Fontenen. If you are lucky you can get a brewery tour by the head brewer and co-owner (name escapes me now). You must go there. It is a lambic blender and your best chance at sampling old vintages up to 10 year old gueuze and kriek lambics. The tap products are also incredible. Plan at least half a day and bring at least one drinking partner because the vintages are sold in 750ml bottles.
Brussels is all about lambic, since the surrounding area (Senne River Valey) is the only place where lambics can be brewed legally (it is an appelation - like Bordeau or Champagne and it contains the local microbiota that ferments the extraordinary product). This is your best chance to sample the big lambics of Girardin, Cantillon, Drie Fontenen, Oud Beersels and Hansens.
Make sure you visit 400 beers, which as the name implies, carries over four hundred beers. It is a great place to pick up some very difficult to find products such as Oud Beersels, Brasserie De Rank, and several others. It is a veritable bartoweler's candi store. You will also find the covetted and very difficult to find (even in Belgium) Westvleteren beers. All of the trapist are sold there naturally.
As for beer bars, many, such as Mort Subite close surprisingly early. Mort Subite closed at 12AM when I went there, even though it had a packed house. Another little bar, about 2 minutes walk from MS is open until the wee hours in the morning and has a very good selection. Ask around when neer Mort Subite - everyone knows the place because it is the only place around to get a late drink. Almost any little café will have something worth drinking and walking around, seeing the sites and taking in a beer an hour for an entire day is a real pleasure. (I started off with a beer with my breakfast!).
Another great thing about Belgium is that you can drink anywhere. I always carried a glass, a few bottles of beers and a bottle opener and frequently stopped in the many botanical gardens, or surrounded by historical buildings, pourred myself a glass of nectar took in the sites and.... you get the picture.
I personally feel that Brussels is the most incredible city that I have ever visited. I ended up staying there 4 of the 9 days I was in Belgium. I would love to go and live there for a few years.
Daniel
Brussels is all about lambic, since the surrounding area (Senne River Valey) is the only place where lambics can be brewed legally (it is an appelation - like Bordeau or Champagne and it contains the local microbiota that ferments the extraordinary product). This is your best chance to sample the big lambics of Girardin, Cantillon, Drie Fontenen, Oud Beersels and Hansens.
Make sure you visit 400 beers, which as the name implies, carries over four hundred beers. It is a great place to pick up some very difficult to find products such as Oud Beersels, Brasserie De Rank, and several others. It is a veritable bartoweler's candi store. You will also find the covetted and very difficult to find (even in Belgium) Westvleteren beers. All of the trapist are sold there naturally.
As for beer bars, many, such as Mort Subite close surprisingly early. Mort Subite closed at 12AM when I went there, even though it had a packed house. Another little bar, about 2 minutes walk from MS is open until the wee hours in the morning and has a very good selection. Ask around when neer Mort Subite - everyone knows the place because it is the only place around to get a late drink. Almost any little café will have something worth drinking and walking around, seeing the sites and taking in a beer an hour for an entire day is a real pleasure. (I started off with a beer with my breakfast!).
Another great thing about Belgium is that you can drink anywhere. I always carried a glass, a few bottles of beers and a bottle opener and frequently stopped in the many botanical gardens, or surrounded by historical buildings, pourred myself a glass of nectar took in the sites and.... you get the picture.
I personally feel that Brussels is the most incredible city that I have ever visited. I ended up staying there 4 of the 9 days I was in Belgium. I would love to go and live there for a few years.
Daniel
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borderline_alcoholic
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:00 pm
My advice is probably more general than you are really after, but I will do my best.
If you are partial to Samuel Smith's products, then I'd recommend the Fitzroy Tavern on Charlotte Street in London. There is another pub called the John Snow in Soho, but I forget the streetname. Either of these is nice enough.
The Museum Tavern on Great Russell Street is also quite nice, though I am not sure what they currently have on tap - it is located opposite the British Museum, which is also worth a wander around - it is effectively a holding pen for all the stuff we stole (or 'rescued for future posterity', depending on how you look at these things) during the empire days.
I would second Scott's recommendation of The Lamb and while you are in the area, you should try out the Norfolk Arms on Leigh Street, also in Bloomsbury. It has won several 'good pub' awards and is pretty decent.
If you want to head further afield, the Henley Bar in Wood Green has a small village pub feel to it and it always has a few taps - it is a free house, but their beer range is variable. It also has the advantage of regular lock-ins if you get to know the locals and you happen to feel like drinking all night.
I also quite like the Rose and Crown in Stoke Newington - I think it is on the corner of Stoke Newington Green Road and Church Street.
If you head to Angel, Islington, there are no end of very pleasant little bars along there - just keep looking until you find one which has beers that you want to drink. Sadly they are trying to attract a trendy young crowd, which in London terms means bottled lagers. There should be taps around the place too. Better still in that sort of area, get off the main street and find one of the much larger pubs on the sidestreets in the area - there are some nice ones about the place.
For good beers, however, you are probably better served getting out of London. The cost of floorspace in London has led to there being very few pubs which can afford to run a decent sized tap room and those which do have a tendency to be unpleasantly packed, so lose any nice pub feel. Head to provincial towns and villages for good pubs with very extensive beer selections. I'd recommend taking a wander around Aldburgh - which is a very pretty coastal town with some very nice pubs.
As regards Brussels, there are some very extensively stocked hideaway bars in the red light district, if you do not mind people smoking marijuana all around you (Belgium is the first and AFAIK only Country in Europe to legalise it's recreational use). And lots of nice little cafes have a quite good beer selection.
Actually, with regard to the UK and Belgium, I think that you are well advised to just wander around and drop into pubs as you pass them, see what is available and what the place is like and then stay or go depending on what you think. This is my approach to pubbing around the world, and has so far served me very well...
Hope that some of the above ramblings are of some help to you...
If you are partial to Samuel Smith's products, then I'd recommend the Fitzroy Tavern on Charlotte Street in London. There is another pub called the John Snow in Soho, but I forget the streetname. Either of these is nice enough.
The Museum Tavern on Great Russell Street is also quite nice, though I am not sure what they currently have on tap - it is located opposite the British Museum, which is also worth a wander around - it is effectively a holding pen for all the stuff we stole (or 'rescued for future posterity', depending on how you look at these things) during the empire days.
I would second Scott's recommendation of The Lamb and while you are in the area, you should try out the Norfolk Arms on Leigh Street, also in Bloomsbury. It has won several 'good pub' awards and is pretty decent.
If you want to head further afield, the Henley Bar in Wood Green has a small village pub feel to it and it always has a few taps - it is a free house, but their beer range is variable. It also has the advantage of regular lock-ins if you get to know the locals and you happen to feel like drinking all night.
I also quite like the Rose and Crown in Stoke Newington - I think it is on the corner of Stoke Newington Green Road and Church Street.
If you head to Angel, Islington, there are no end of very pleasant little bars along there - just keep looking until you find one which has beers that you want to drink. Sadly they are trying to attract a trendy young crowd, which in London terms means bottled lagers. There should be taps around the place too. Better still in that sort of area, get off the main street and find one of the much larger pubs on the sidestreets in the area - there are some nice ones about the place.
For good beers, however, you are probably better served getting out of London. The cost of floorspace in London has led to there being very few pubs which can afford to run a decent sized tap room and those which do have a tendency to be unpleasantly packed, so lose any nice pub feel. Head to provincial towns and villages for good pubs with very extensive beer selections. I'd recommend taking a wander around Aldburgh - which is a very pretty coastal town with some very nice pubs.
As regards Brussels, there are some very extensively stocked hideaway bars in the red light district, if you do not mind people smoking marijuana all around you (Belgium is the first and AFAIK only Country in Europe to legalise it's recreational use). And lots of nice little cafes have a quite good beer selection.
Actually, with regard to the UK and Belgium, I think that you are well advised to just wander around and drop into pubs as you pass them, see what is available and what the place is like and then stay or go depending on what you think. This is my approach to pubbing around the world, and has so far served me very well...
Hope that some of the above ramblings are of some help to you...
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Uncle Bobby
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 8:00 pm
- Location: East End Toronto
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Back from my trip.
Although I was not able to dedicate the trip entirely to the zymurgic magic of Belgium, I did try quite a lot of food and beer styles, and I enjoyed myself tremendously. The Belgians are knowledgable gourmands and will happily share their knowledge of foods, beers and wines with you. And the food is not all moules frites/steak frites.
Thankfully my rowing partner is also a very knowledgable beer drinker, and he had me drinking some very funky stuff on a day trip to Brussels. Let me just say that there appear to be no bad flavours in Belgian brewing, only unrefined ones. (BTW - I entirely recommend that Cantillon to anyone with an adventurous, and non-judgemental, palate.) And remember that many of the stronger flavours appear intended to be drunk in a context of eating.
The Musée de la Biére was a bit of a disappointment. However "In t'Kelderke" next door on the Grand Place offered great food and a great selection of beers. (Admittedly, 15-20 Euros for an entrée. Bring plastic.)
We are presently putting together a report, with some very lovely pictures, which we intend to submit shortly.
I would however like to address one issue, which admittedly appeared in a different string. While we were at the rowing club we drank a lot of Jupiler. I did not think that much of it at first, kind of a golden, hoppy beer, like 50 or Upper Canada Lager. However it was redeemd by two issues and became really enjoyable after a while.
Firstly, it was only ever served in 25cl glasses, and was always fresh. A conscientious bartender should ensure a good glass of beer, and there are (apparently) 100 steps in serving a good glass. At about 1Euro/glass, Jupiler was very reasonable, too, especially in the context of getting in the rounds for 4-6 drinkers. (Probably marginally more expensive outside of a club setting.) I was also told that it should be drunk in 4 sips in order to ensure freshness and chill, and that seemed to work out just fine. Clear, hoppy, alive and clean-tasting. Great after rowing, or a hockey game too, presumably.
Secondly, the beer was great for the context: hanging out with chums, chatting and enjoying each other's company. Smaller glasses ensured that there was a lot of fun, generosity of spirit and general bonhommie, because we were always buying each other rounds.
It would be ludicrous to offer notes on this beer; in fact it would be an invitation to shoot it down. But a properly poured glass in the right context was great.
Oh, and we came third in our class in the rowing marathon.
-Uncle Bobby
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-10-28 12:58 ]</font>
Although I was not able to dedicate the trip entirely to the zymurgic magic of Belgium, I did try quite a lot of food and beer styles, and I enjoyed myself tremendously. The Belgians are knowledgable gourmands and will happily share their knowledge of foods, beers and wines with you. And the food is not all moules frites/steak frites.
Thankfully my rowing partner is also a very knowledgable beer drinker, and he had me drinking some very funky stuff on a day trip to Brussels. Let me just say that there appear to be no bad flavours in Belgian brewing, only unrefined ones. (BTW - I entirely recommend that Cantillon to anyone with an adventurous, and non-judgemental, palate.) And remember that many of the stronger flavours appear intended to be drunk in a context of eating.
The Musée de la Biére was a bit of a disappointment. However "In t'Kelderke" next door on the Grand Place offered great food and a great selection of beers. (Admittedly, 15-20 Euros for an entrée. Bring plastic.)
We are presently putting together a report, with some very lovely pictures, which we intend to submit shortly.
I would however like to address one issue, which admittedly appeared in a different string. While we were at the rowing club we drank a lot of Jupiler. I did not think that much of it at first, kind of a golden, hoppy beer, like 50 or Upper Canada Lager. However it was redeemd by two issues and became really enjoyable after a while.
Firstly, it was only ever served in 25cl glasses, and was always fresh. A conscientious bartender should ensure a good glass of beer, and there are (apparently) 100 steps in serving a good glass. At about 1Euro/glass, Jupiler was very reasonable, too, especially in the context of getting in the rounds for 4-6 drinkers. (Probably marginally more expensive outside of a club setting.) I was also told that it should be drunk in 4 sips in order to ensure freshness and chill, and that seemed to work out just fine. Clear, hoppy, alive and clean-tasting. Great after rowing, or a hockey game too, presumably.
Secondly, the beer was great for the context: hanging out with chums, chatting and enjoying each other's company. Smaller glasses ensured that there was a lot of fun, generosity of spirit and general bonhommie, because we were always buying each other rounds.
It would be ludicrous to offer notes on this beer; in fact it would be an invitation to shoot it down. But a properly poured glass in the right context was great.
Oh, and we came third in our class in the rowing marathon.
-Uncle Bobby
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-10-28 12:58 ]</font>
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Rob Creighton
- Bar Fly
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:00 pm
- Location: Dundas, ON
It's true: context is important.
One of the most refreshing lagers I have ever encountered was a can of Blue (!!??) drank upside down from a 3 piece can off of the filler before the seamer in London Labatt's in 1978. I was wearing a rubber suit and was hot and thirsty. Almost like sex in a can. Go figure.
One of the most refreshing lagers I have ever encountered was a can of Blue (!!??) drank upside down from a 3 piece can off of the filler before the seamer in London Labatt's in 1978. I was wearing a rubber suit and was hot and thirsty. Almost like sex in a can. Go figure.