More new arrivals at Smokeless

Zymurgy · Post by **Zymurgy** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:45 am

After a somewhat dry summer for new beers, it seems all of our private orders are arriving at Joe's at the same time. Just dropped off this evening from Riva are the Lucifer (think Duvel), Vondel and St. Arnoldus Tripel. Drop by and see what they are all about.

Cheers,

Geoffrey.

Zymurgy · Post by **Zymurgy** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:15 am

I just dropped off a private order of Newton Apple beer from the Lefebvre Brewery. Fans of the Ephemere - Pomme will certainly see where Unibroue got its inspiration from.

Geoffrey.

CapFlu · Post by **CapFlu** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:55 pm

If you're thinking that Lucifer will be anything like Duvel you will be in for a BIG disappointment!

CapFlu

[ This Message was edited by: CapFlu on 2003-10-09 14:56 ]

dhurtubise · Post by **dhurtubise** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:39 am

I would argue that they both fit the same style of beer: Belgian golden ale. I would also argue that both beers are relatively similar both in quality and overall flavour perceptions. I like both beers equally and enjoy their slight variations as defining each of their character. I beleive that those who haven't tried Riva's Lucifer would be well served to try it, even if it means they might gain a greater appreaciation for Duvel.

Their is a danger in allowing ourselves to be branded, even if it is for a high quality product like Duvel. Practically all of the belgian breweries are in constant evolutions because of the nature of the intense competition in that market. The beer you are drinking today may very well have been improved, or changed since you last had the product.

Mississauga Matt · Post by **Mississauga Matt** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:05 pm

No offense, but I side with CapFlu. I find big differences between the two beers, with Duvel IMHO being much better.

CapFlu · Post by **CapFlu** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:20 pm

I'm sorry that I changed the thread down this route. I'm fairly new to Bar Towel and find it odd that agents use the website to push their product so much...

... and the fact that I saw the comparisons between Duvel and Lucifer with no shades of grey.

I personally find that most Riva products are thin and lacking complexity and shouldn't be compared to "beer institutions" like Duvel.

CapFlu

[ This Message was edited by: CapFlu on 2003-10-10 13:22 ]

borderline_alcoholic · Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:08 pm

I see both sides of this discussion as being valid.

I would completely agree that Duvel is vastly superior to Lucifer, however they are still the same style of beer, so I do not think that it is unreasonable to say 'think Duvel' when describing it to people who are not familiar with it.

Along similar lines, when describing Molsons Canadian to those fortunate enough not to have tried it, I would be inclined to say 'think Stella Artois' or something along those lines. Both being mass market pish lagers, but Stella just happening to be a bit more pleasant. I would simply recommend drinking neither of these.

Anyway, I in no way think that Lucifer is a bad beer, but there are plenty of better ones available. Given that I have not drunk a Lucifer in over 2 years, I might just have to order a bottle while it is here to reacquaint myself with it.

Also, with regard to agents pushing products here, the market for quality beers in Ontario is a very small niche and this is probably the only advertising that these products are likely to get.

Given the short-term availability of these beers, I am very happy to be informed of their arrival by the agent or anyone else. If these were mass market products with advertising everywhere and total penetration throughout all bars and retail shops, then agent postings of this sort would be somewhat less welcome, however this is unfortunately not the case.

As it stands, we have to go out of our way (much of the time) to find these beers so I think that this kind of posting is entirely acceptable and to be encouraged. Ours is still a niche market in Ontario and word of mouth (and postings to small interested groups via this sort of medium) is really the only way to keep people informed.

Just my 2 penneth.

Sac · Post by **Sac** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:10 pm

I think that this is the beauty with beer. Beer is like everything else in life, it is personal preference. Some of my customers enjoy Lucifer more than Duvel. And the reverse, some customers prefer Duvel over Lucifer. It just comes down to what you enjoy drinking. If somebody enjoys drinking Molson Canadian, then be it. If you enjoy drinking red wine with fish, then it is the best combination for that person. I enjoy all the feedbacks on the beers that I bring in. But I bring them to Smokeless for people to enjoy. And to me, thats what beer is all about. To me, everybody is right, because people have different tastes.

[ This Message was edited by: Sac on 2003-10-10 14:16 ]

borderline_alcoholic · Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:30 pm

Except that people who like drinking Molson Canadian are just wrong.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:31 pm

I agree that it is nice to hear about what the agents and Smokeless are getting. I wouldn't hear about most of them otherwise. Although it does leave me drooling most of the time, I need to visit Smokeless more often obviously!

I have a Lucifer in the fridge as it happens, maybe I will pick up a Duvel (which I haven't had in god knows how long) and drink them together!

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:13 am

CapFlu, what exactly do you find "odd" about agents making posts about their beers on a beer website? I don't know if you're referring to us, but Esprit2's post was not "pushing" anything. His comment about Lucifer is exactly what I would have written...if someone is not familiar with Strong Golden Belgian Ales, there is not a better description to be used than "think Duvel" he didn't venture an opinion abou the beer but gave a good description of what the beer is about...in fact, I don't recall that we ever rave about our beers....more often than not, I will post reviews from other people rather than my opinon...also, as others have since posted, whether one is better than the other is a personal opinion...you're entitled to yours but that doesn't make you right...no more so than if someone posted that Lucifer was better would they be wrong....As for postings about our products, I am sure that most bartowellers appreciate being informed about new products that are available in the city...if you don't, then read on and don't worry about it.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:38 am

just re-read my posting and it came across sounding like my nose was out of joint...it wasn't...sorry if it sounded like it was!

burgermeister · Post by **burgermeister** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:12 pm

On 2003-10-11 11:13, esprit wrote:
CapFlu, what exactly do you find "odd" about agents making posts about their beers on a beer website? ....

Esprit, I wouldn't take offence with the comment. I think CapFlu is probably correct in that it is "odd" to see so many people in the business represented on this board and so actively involved. It's a little unique based upon my (limited) experience with boards on other topics.

It's also what makes this board so damn interesting and informative. I think I learned more in a month or so of reading what's posted here from those in the business than I had in years previous. I hope all you guys keep up the active participation on this board, it's great.

Lubiere · Post by **Lubiere** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:25 pm

My experience is this...if you look at Bieropholie.com, the Quebec beer lover's board, "industry" is represented by the brewpub operators(most notably JF Gravel, from DDC)or by the specialized beer stores(Johannette or Grand Duc). They are also using the board to promote their fares or new products...nothing wrong with that, whether its done in a neutral manner, or in a promotional manner.

And it is the right of the other intested parties (the drinkers) to comment, positively or negatively, about these products.

This said, I am always glad to hear when Peter or Paul have new products, either at the LCBO, at my local beer bar (wished they opened a Smokeless' in Ottawa), or through private order