LCBO Super Premium Beers Release

[esprit]

Nevermind!

[detritus]

Detritus, everyone is entitled to their opinion and now I’m going to give you mine

Thanks.

As to Sam Smith Nut Brown being mediocre, beeradvocate rates it B+ and the Alstrom brothers rate it A+. Ratebeer give it an 84 with a score of 3.5…I suppose the thousands of people that have reviewed this beer are dorks and your palate is somewhat exceptional. I generally do not take issue with people’s personal opinions of my products but I will when they slam products which are considered some of the best of their style. Your opinion is yours and, frankly, your palate is questionable but you have every right to post your opinion on bartowel just as I have the right to suggest you have no taste.

Yeah, it's an opinion. So is everything else that gets posted to this board. Get over it.

If you put your products out into the market, get redy for some people not to like them. I never held myself out as an expert.

Maybe from now on I'll put a "this is only an opinion" disclaimer on my posts so as to avoid incurring your wrath.

In regards to Mort Subite Kriek, it has never been available in Ontario and perhaps you can enlighten me as to where it is “incredibly widely available” in other jurisidictions. It is not available anywhere in the U.S. and, to my knowledge, anywhere else in Canada As to “quite bad”, I don’t know what it takes to get you “excited” about “boring” brands but perhaps another euro lager from Kazakhstan would fit the bill. It pisses me off when we when we finally get some interesting beers listed that people like you want to crap all over the effort..may you choke on a cherry pit. Cantillon will never show up on the General List so get real…would you rather have no lambics or some commercially popular ones. Move to Buffalo and get an apartment next to Premier Gourmet to satisfy your tastes.

Mort Subite Framboise has been on the LCBO General List for the pat 3 years.

Like I said, I must've been mixing up seeing the Framboise in the LCBO with the Kriek.

As for the availability of the Kriek, I'm fairly sure I've seen it pretty widely in the States. However, I'd assume you'd have better information about the distribution than I do, so I'll defer to your information.

Now, as for the rest:

1. Yeah, I'm just about as excited about another Mort Subite release as I would be about another Eastern European lager. I won't buy either one. I've found the whole Mort Subite range to be fairly poor imitations of the authentic lambics and gueuzes that I love and I won't waste my time and money on them. Again, it's my opinion and people are free to take it or not. Like I've said before, we have tons of good local product available to us, and I'd much rather support those innovative local breweries than a giant international brewery (S&N) that bastardizes traditional styles.

2. As for Cantillon, I'm not holding my breath for it to show up on the general list any time soon. That said, there are some agents (big props to R&R here), who are bringing in some really exceptional product from some very small producers. Maybe we'll see some authentic gueuze (Cantillon or otherwise) some time in the future as a private order type release.

3. You need to chill out and stop antagonizing potential customers. I'm pretty fed up with the way you show up and rudely flame anyone who posts at all negatively about the products you represent. My posts were confined to my opinions about beer. I don't - and my guess is that others here don't - think it's apropriate to resort to insults about my palate, etc. I especially don't think it's appropriate for you to do so, given your obvious bias. If you want to defend your products, go ahead, but please to it politely and on the merits, rather that attacking me personally.

-Josh

[detritus]

I'm sorry to go over the top on this issue but if Detritus had prefaced his comments with something like " I don't know what I'm talking about and it is only my personal opinion and no one should take it seriously as my taste buds are in my ass" then I would not have taken offence. When the beer world recognizes a brew as being world class and some joker casts aspersions on it I'm going to sit up and take notice. You don't like the beer...OK..say so but don't tell me it's mediocre as it's your taste that's mediocre.

Yeah, that's mature.

Two more things:

1. I'm officially starting to boycott products represented by Esprit Agencies. No company who treats their customers this way deserves my business. I'd be very happy if others here would support me in this.

2. Cass/Greg: While I'm not a big fan of censorship, I think these posts might indicate that it's time to institute some kind of site policy on posts by people in the trade. While I don't think it's been a significant problem with most industry board participants, there have been a couple now who have resorted to what I consider to be pretty agressive speech and it might be time to at least think about controlling it somehow, in order to preserve the otherwise pretty positive community that's arisen here.

-Josh

[Belgian]

I don't care if Darth Vader starts importing beers I like to buy. I do encourage Peter Lopaty at Esprit to continue do the best he can importing the best possible beers that the LCBO will accept & will be actually able to sell here... and also PL to please accept that not everyone in the Web beer forums will express favorable opinions of, for example Mort Subite products in general.

Comments of beer drinkers on BarTowel have to be taken with a big grain of relativity - for example, what 'mediocre' means in this context could be "above average" or even "exceptional" to the norm.

A person who prefers inhumanly acetic Gueuze or Double IPAs with 200 IBU of hops may consider almost any other type Gueuze or IPA "mediocre." Extreme case, but the point is this isn't wrong in their own terms. And it has nothing to do with general standards, but only personal likes and dislikes, and takes nothing away from the integrity of products other people may enjoy.

It's a small world here in Southern Ontario, so everybody hug their inner child... now let's all try to get along, have fun and not miss the point.

[Bobsy]

It's a small world here in Southern Ontario, so everybody hug their inner child... now let's all try to get along, have fun and not miss the point.

I couldn't agree with your comments more..

Double IPAs with 200 IBU of hops

...and now your making my mouth water.

[detritus]

I don't care if Darth Vader starts importing beers I like to buy. I do encourage Peter Lopaty at Esprit to continue do the best he can importing the best possible beers that the LCBO will accept & will be actually able to sell here... and also PL to please accept that not everyone in the Web beer forums will express favorable opinions of, for example Mort Subite products in general.

Comments of beer drinkers on BarTowel have to be taken with a big grain of relativity - for example, what 'mediocre' means in this context could be "above average" or even "exceptional" to the norm.

A person who prefers inhumanly acetic Gueuze or Double IPAs with 200 IBU of hops may consider almost any other type Gueuze or IPA "mediocre." Extreme case, but the point is this isn't wrong in their own terms. And it has nothing to do with general standards, but only personal likes and dislikes, and takes nothing away from the integrity of products other people may enjoy.

It's a small world here in Southern Ontario, so everybody hug their inner child... now let's all try to get along, have fun and not miss the point.

Like I said, I have no problem with Peter disagreeing with my opinion (so long as he makes his biases clear), I have a big problem with comments like "your palate is questionable ... you have no taste" and "I don't know what I'm talking about and ... my taste buds are in my ass."

I think it's particularly inappropriate for him to do so without clearly setting out his relation to the product in question (i.e. the Ontario agent).

-Josh

[detritus]

...but that's only my opinion and I could be wrong. In the past, rabbit would have posted these comments...now it's me and I'm upfront and I'm loving the exposure. Bad week so far so I need someone to rant against and this board offers the best opportunity for same...

I might suggest that Peter read Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point and then think hard about whether a community of beer geeks/good beer advocates is really the place where he wants to be blowing off steam.

-Josh

[Publican]

I am looking forward to Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale being on the LCBO general list and plan to buy quite a few of them. This beer is great when being paired with English Cheshire cheese. I haven't had Black Oak Nutbrown in a long time so I'll have to buy some of that and compare it with Sam Smith's and Cheshire.

The Samuel Smith's Brewery will be happy. When I took the tour of Sam Smith's brewery the tour guide was not happy that the LCBO only sold the brewery's beer once a year. I added that I'd like to see Sam Smith's beers more often. Now 7 years and 4 months after I was in Tadcaster both Sam Smith's and myself are happy.

I also can't wait for Young's Double Choclate Stout

[viggo]

I'll just say its nice to finally have a beer importing business that actually treats you like a customer and back up their excellent service with exciting products (R+R) Keep up the good work!

[JesseM]

Not quite on topic, but somewhat related:

Does anyone else have this same problem I seem to have (and it's getter worse, especially with the spring release coming up)? When I go to my local LCBO's, I tend to cruise the isles for at least 10-20 minutes, trying to decide what exactly I want. I only have so much money right now, so I have to try and budget things. But just today, I couldn't make up my mind on a six-pack of Sgt. Major's or 6 different singles. The singles made more sense, to give me some variety, especially since my money is limited, but I was just so hung up on wanting some fresh Sgt. Major's.

Oh man, it was hard. I went with the singles. But this has really always been an issue for me. As much as I complain sometimes about the LCBO, I still seem to have enough choice to really get myself stuck in indecisive mode.

[Raptor2023]

Not quite on topic, but somewhat related:

Does anyone else have this same problem I seem to have (and it's getter worse, especially with the spring release coming up)? When I go to my local LCBO's, I tend to cruise the isles for at least 10-20 minutes, trying to decide what exactly I want. I only have so much money right now, so I have to try and budget things. But just today, I couldn't make up my mind on a six-pack of Sgt. Major's or 6 different singles. The singles made more sense, to give me some variety, especially since my money is limited, but I was just so hung up on wanting some fresh Sgt. Major's.

Oh man, it was hard. I went with the singles. But this has really always been an issue for me. As much as I complain sometimes about the LCBO, I still seem to have enough choice to really get myself stuck in indecisive mode.

I had the exact same problem arise to me recently, but unlike Jesse I went for the Sgt. Major instead. It was really fresh and tasty.

[Bobsy]

Not quite on topic, but somewhat related:

Does anyone else have this same problem I seem to have (and it's getter worse, especially with the spring release coming up)? When I go to my local LCBO's, I tend to cruise the isles for at least 10-20 minutes, trying to decide what exactly I want. I only have so much money right now, so I have to try and budget things. But just today, I couldn't make up my mind on a six-pack of Sgt. Major's or 6 different singles. The singles made more sense, to give me some variety, especially since my money is limited, but I was just so hung up on wanting some fresh Sgt. Major's.

Oh man, it was hard. I went with the singles. But this has really always been an issue for me. As much as I complain sometimes about the LCBO, I still seem to have enough choice to really get myself stuck in indecisive mode.

I do this all the time. I appreciate that the LCBO gives me the opportunity to be indecisive. If not for the monopoly, I think a lot of people would have some very good things to say about the LCBO. I'd love to have the selection they have in the States, but in reality there is enough here to keep me occupied. The only thing I'd really wish would change is that we should get a greater variety of Canadian beer, and that they make it easier for Ontario micros to get more beer listed.

[GregClow]

2. Cass/Greg: While I'm not a big fan of censorship, I think these posts might indicate that it's time to institute some kind of site policy on posts by people in the trade. While I don't think it's been a significant problem with most industry board participants, there have been a couple now who have resorted to what I consider to be pretty agressive speech and it might be time to at least think about controlling it somehow, in order to preserve the otherwise pretty positive community that's arisen here.

While any decision on this would be ultimately up to Cass, since I just help out around here, I do have three comments on this:

1) Trying to administer - or even define - a policy specifically for people in the trade would be difficult, if not impossible. How do you define "in the trade"? What would the "policy" entail? Who would be responsible for enforcing the policy, and how?

2) If someone is an being as asshole, whether or not they're "in the trade" is irrelevant. I've seen posts that are just as aggressive - or even more so - from non-trade contributors. So a special policy just for "in the trade" people wouldn't really make sense in that context.

3) Arguing on the Internet is like being in the Special Olympics: Even if you win, you're still a retard.

[Bytowner]

Not quite on topic, but somewhat related:

Does anyone else have this same problem I seem to have (and it's getter worse, especially with the spring release coming up)? When I go to my local LCBO's, I tend to cruise the isles for at least 10-20 minutes, trying to decide what exactly I want. I only have so much money right now, so I have to try and budget things. But just today, I couldn't make up my mind on a six-pack of Sgt. Major's or 6 different singles. The singles made more sense, to give me some variety, especially since my money is limited, but I was just so hung up on wanting some fresh Sgt. Major's.

Oh man, it was hard. I went with the singles. But this has really always been an issue for me. As much as I complain sometimes about the LCBO, I still seem to have enough choice to really get myself stuck in indecisive mode.

I hear ya. The classic beer geek problem. You want to try all the beers you can, but you're terrified that if you don't support the beers you love (especially in Canada), they'll disappear. Sometimes I see a shelf stocked full of Sgt. Major's sitting next to a near-empty shelf of some non-descript NA lager and I shed a tear.

[detritus]

1) Trying to administer - or even define - a policy specifically for people in the trade would be difficult, if not impossible. How do you define "in the trade"? What would the "policy" entail? Who would be responsible for enforcing the policy, and how?

Yeah, enforcement is clearly an issue, although my intuition is that with moderate moderation (no pun intended) at first, it would be do-able.

As for policy definition, I like the coffeegeek.com forum policy, which seems to work fairly well over there. It's essentially:

No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.

Incidentally, they also ban commercial posts on their forums, which I think is not great (and probably wouldn't work here), but it works for them. My understanding is that they have a handful of moderators who will remove (or edit) offending posts. I think they're pretty lenient, generally (they mostly remove posts that violate the no-commercial-posting rule).

I don't actually have a problem with profanity, either. I'd be pretty happy with a "no personal attacks" policy.

2) If someone is an being as asshole, whether or not they're "in the trade" is irrelevant. I've seen posts that are just as aggressive - or even more so - from non-trade contributors. So a special policy just for "in the trade" people wouldn't really make sense in that context.

Yeah, that's probably right. Although a policy requiring disclosure of bias would be nice. I'm thinking specifically of instances like this where someone with a clear commercial interest in a product personally attacks someone offering an opinion of that product without making his/her commercial interest clear.

It's not the disagreement, or the product promotion that I have a problem with - it's the personal nature of the attack, in an instance where the attacker has a commercial stake.

Again, difficult to administer, but I think just putting a policy in place and enforcing it for really offensive breaches would be a good start.

3) Arguing on the Internet is like being in the Special Olympics: Even if you win, you're still a retard.

Touché.

Although: I think this is probably something that should be thought about - I'd like to hear Cass' (and anyone else's) opinion. Like I said, the bartowel community has grown up into a pretty cool thing in Toronto. It would be a shame if the community lost more long-standing participants due to the nature of a small number of posts on the forums, given that there have already, in the last couple of years been a few valued members of the community who have stopped participating over similar concerns.

-Josh