The Bar Towel

Yes, the LCBO 'Controls Liquor' in all of Ontario, even determining the policy by which you're allowed to legally bring across (and declare at) the border.

So any degree of LC store involvement, or not is sort of a side issue.

beerstodiscover wrote:

S. St. Jeb wrote:

beerstodiscover wrote:I think with the loosened booze restrictions Keep6 and others are moving things through non-LCBO channels now.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I'm referring to restaurants getting the right to sell alcohol to go during COVID. For instance, Keep6 is still importing exclusive beer/wine/spirits, but selling it through their bars other non-LCBO bottle shops. Previously Keep6 would sell many of these imports as LCBO Online Exclusives.

The LCBO has a few recent issues going on.

-they used to have a Products of the World division that would sell single bottles online. We'd try to put some cases of some SKUs through that. They were incredibly slow at moving product from warehouse to online (4-6 months after it would land), make errors. In the end, even though it was flawed, it still got single bottles out. The LCBO's dropped that category and products are now Ad Hoc submissions
-LCBO outsourced their warehouse. a third party runs it. They have strict packaging requirements that, frankly, all of our breweries cannot meet. it will inhibit beer from being made available (no more Stille Nacht or Oerbier for shelf listing and, after 2021, the chances of major orders of 3 Fonteinen being available online on or shelves decreases significantly)

It can be stated that the LCBO's made it more difficult for smaller agencies and non-Ontario microbreweries to do business with them. In turn, that will make it more difficult for clients to try new beer or to buy bottles of beer that they love.

Provost Drunk wrote:

beerstodiscover wrote: I'm referring to restaurants getting the right to sell alcohol to go during COVID. For instance, Keep6 is still importing exclusive beer/wine/spirits, but selling it through their bars other non-LCBO bottle shops. Previously Keep6 would sell many of these imports as LCBO Online Exclusives.

S. St. Jeb wrote: Oh. I think I thought everything had to go through the LCBO regardless of how it eventually made it's way to the consumer.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but although everything has to "go through" the LCBO form a testing perspective, importers like Keep6 can sell at a higher mark-up if they sell through a bottle shop like Volo than the LCBO.

Most of the offerings at Volo and other bottle shops wouldn't have been LCBO listings in any event. And for so long we clamoured for privately owned bottle shops. We now have it - a silver lining to the pandemic. Prices are high, but I'm happy to have the optionality. Perhaps with time there were be a proliferation of bottle shops and some downward pressure on prices.

I'll correct you

In Ontario, all imported alcohol sales go through the LCBO.
The mark-up that Keep6 or Gleemer or whomever has is decided prior to the product being ordered. That is built into the price of the product.
Keep6 or other agents to do not "higher mark-up" to bottle shops.

You have to separate Keep6 from Volo. 2 different businesses. One's an importer that makes money off of importing. One's a bar/bodega that makes money off of retail. A retail operation would mark up all of its alcohol, including products they import. That's why there's wholesale and retail price.

Since the Volo bars pay monthly rent, them selling Keep6 products through their locations at a mark-up is absolutely the right thing to do and has nothing to do with sales through the LCBO (see my previous post).

A proliferation of bottle shops might decrease some prices, but Toronto rents are Toronto rents. Buying a $30 bottle of geuze wholesale price costs money, as does paying an employee to stock a shelf, paying utilities, running POS, paying rent and TMI. That's why there's mark-up. If people were crushing $30 bottles, then the price could arguably drop. Arguably.

Hope this clarifies some of the statements made.

Gleemer Imports wrote:

Provost Drunk wrote:

beerstodiscover wrote: I'm referring to restaurants getting the right to sell alcohol to go during COVID. For instance, Keep6 is still importing exclusive beer/wine/spirits, but selling it through their bars other non-LCBO bottle shops. Previously Keep6 would sell many of these imports as LCBO Online Exclusives.

S. St. Jeb wrote: Oh. I think I thought everything had to go through the LCBO regardless of how it eventually made it's way to the consumer.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but although everything has to "go through" the LCBO form a testing perspective, importers like Keep6 can sell at a higher mark-up if they sell through a bottle shop like Volo than the LCBO.

Most of the offerings at Volo and other bottle shops wouldn't have been LCBO listings in any event. And for so long we clamoured for privately owned bottle shops. We now have it - a silver lining to the pandemic. Prices are high, but I'm happy to have the optionality. Perhaps with time there were be a proliferation of bottle shops and some downward pressure on prices.

I'll correct you

In Ontario, all imported alcohol sales go through the LCBO.
The mark-up that Keep6 or Gleemer or whomever has is decided prior to the product being ordered. That is built into the price of the product.
Keep6 or other agents to do not "higher mark-up" to bottle shops.

You have to separate Keep6 from Volo. 2 different businesses. One's an importer that makes money off of importing. One's a bar/bodega that makes money off of retail. A retail operation would mark up all of its alcohol, including products they import. That's why there's wholesale and retail price.

Since the Volo bars pay monthly rent, them selling Keep6 products through their locations at a mark-up is absolutely the right thing to do and has nothing to do with sales through the LCBO (see my previous post).

A proliferation of bottle shops might decrease some prices, but Toronto rents are Toronto rents. Buying a $30 bottle of geuze wholesale price costs money, as does paying an employee to stock a shelf, paying utilities, running POS, paying rent and TMI. That's why there's mark-up. If people were crushing $30 bottles, then the price could arguably drop. Arguably.

Hope this clarifies some of the statements made.

Yes, thanks - I conflated Keep6 and Volo, which isn't accurate. From a consumer perspective, the net effect is the same, but I appreciate the difference between the mark-up coming from the retailer vs. the distributor. To be clear, I am not criticizing Volo for selling at a mark-up and understand why they to do that. It hasn't deterred me from shopping there for products that I can't get through the LCBO and consumer choice is always a good thing.

Lots of 3 Fonteinen lambic going online this week.

Framboos
Oude kriek
Armand & Gaston

all 375 mL.

Those finally went live today. Snagged a couple Framboos

Craig wrote:Those finally went live today. Snagged a couple Framboos

Armand & Gaston appears to be delayed due to some warehouse snafu.
They will go live next week.

Framboos! https://www.lcbo.com/.../servlet/en/lcbo/framboos-19432
Oude Kriek! https://www.lcbo.com/.../en/lcbo/oude-kriek-geuze-19431

beerstodiscover wrote:

Lukie wrote:Looking at their online exclusive category, it looks pretty pathetic and nothing is available

There hasn't been a whole lot going on with online exclusives for a while. I think with the loosened booze restrictions Keep6 and others are moving things through non-LCBO channels now. Since they can't compete on price (or offer a in-house consumption) exclusive products are really the only draw for customers to non-LCBO bottle shops.

But from what I've seen thus far, supermarkets are stocking mostly Canadian beers and typically nothing over 7%. Either they have some restrictions on what they can stock (nanny state mentality again) or they are very narrow-minded on what constitutes beer in my neck of the woods.

Lukie wrote:

beerstodiscover wrote:

Lukie wrote:Looking at their online exclusive category, it looks pretty pathetic and nothing is available

There hasn't been a whole lot going on with online exclusives for a while. I think with the loosened booze restrictions Keep6 and others are moving things through non-LCBO channels now. Since they can't compete on price (or offer a in-house consumption) exclusive products are really the only draw for customers to non-LCBO bottle shops.

But from what I've seen thus far, supermarkets are stocking mostly Canadian beers and typically nothing over 7%. Either they have some restrictions on what they can stock (nanny state mentality again) or they are very narrow-minded on what constitutes beer in my neck of the woods.

Ontario beer and Ontario cider are the only ones allowed to submit applications for grocery listings.

and: "Products must meet eligibility requirements as outlined in Ontario Regulation 232/16 : Sale of Liquor in Government Stores Liquor Control Act, R.S.O. 1990, c.L.18"

Three more 3 Fonteinen bottles went online.

Intens Rood
Hommage (lcbo has a site error for this, but it's coming)
Armand & Lambic Vintage

Gleemer Imports wrote:Three more 3 Fonteinen bottles went online.

Intens Rood
Hommage (lcbo has a site error for this, but it's coming)
Armand & Lambic Vintage

I actually came across a couple from the last release in-store, despite being online only. What's the deal with that, a return, or do some managers order a case for their store?

Not that I'm complaining, as I ended up grabbing a bottle of Armand & Gaston.

seangm wrote:

Gleemer Imports wrote:Three more 3 Fonteinen bottles went online.

Intens Rood
Hommage (lcbo has a site error for this, but it's coming)
Armand & Lambic Vintage

I actually came across a couple from the last release in-store, despite being online only. What's the deal with that, a return, or do some managers order a case for their store?

Not that I'm complaining, as I ended up grabbing a bottle of Armand & Gaston.

our take?
The online sale system is not the best way to search and discover alcohol. you either have to know the 3 F is available online or you'll likely not stumble on it.

we did two larger releases, this being the 2nd. Anything from the first release that didn't sell online was moved to stores.

Ideally, we will aim to have 3F as a shelf-listed product, but the biggest issue is finding a cardboard case that has a PSI certification stamp printed on it. 3F is not having luck sourcing that in Belgium and the LCBO makes it a must.

Gleemer Imports wrote:

seangm wrote:

Gleemer Imports wrote:Three more 3 Fonteinen bottles went online.

Intens Rood
Hommage (lcbo has a site error for this, but it's coming)
Armand & Lambic Vintage

I actually came across a couple from the last release in-store, despite being online only. What's the deal with that, a return, or do some managers order a case for their store?

Not that I'm complaining, as I ended up grabbing a bottle of Armand & Gaston.

our take?
The online sale system is not the best way to search and discover alcohol. you either have to know the 3 F is available online or you'll likely not stumble on it.

we did two larger releases, this being the 2nd. Anything from the first release that didn't sell online was moved to stores.

Ideally, we will aim to have 3F as a shelf-listed product, but the biggest issue is finding a cardboard case that has a PSI certification stamp printed on it. 3F is not having luck sourcing that in Belgium and the LCBO makes it a must.

Thanks for the response. I agree, many online exclusives usually drop quietly with little fanfare. It would be nice to see 3F on shelves as a more regular occurrence, here's hoping they find a suitable case one day.

seangm wrote:
Thanks for the response. I agree, many online exclusives usually drop quietly with little fanfare. It would be nice to see 3F on shelves as a more regular occurrence, here's hoping they find a suitable case one day.

you can't ask for a more proactive client than 3 Fonteinen. They'll figure it out.
they love Ontario, want to be here and want to make it work.

meanwhile, if you haven't grabbed the A&G Vintage 2017, you're doing yourself a disservice.

Just noticed Goose Island BCB Stout just got released this morning. Managed to get myself 2 of those and 1 of the drie fontaine intens rood.