The Bar Towel

BartOwl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:21 pm Is there a uniquely Canadian beer style, that we have a world class example of?

Hmmm. I have occasionally thought about this. I don't think there is a uniquely Canadian style of beer, but there is possibly a very Canadian regional history or preference. I'm getting at some history here, rather than what's currently 'defining' if there is such a thing.

My suggestion is that stock ales and variations are pretty Canadian. No not invented here, but preferred here during a time when beer drinking was much a working class thing and thus driven by that community. I'm going entirely by personal experience with this. Going to the Brunny for a table full of beer glasses as a student; some variation of a stock ale, 50, maybe Export. Other working class bars (sorry taverns) in Ontario and Quebec, largely the same. It's probably a generational thing, because, obviously lagers started to get marketed as "not your father's beers" and as an aspiration to those same working class drinkers as a step up.

How Canadian can we claim it? Debatable as much of Northern Germany has it's Dortmunder class. Yes lagers, but built for the same purpose, audience and often surprisingly similar flavour profiles. I think we might be best to go back to the 70's and 80's reputation of Canadian beer v.s. US beer. There was always some sort of stupid pride that Canadians had stronger and more flavourful beer. Not entirely untrue, but it really had more to do with the US commercial brewers pushing lighter lagers as mainstream while we stuck with the old simple standbys.

My point is that there is a style that has run in our veins for several generations. I had an old family friend who worked in the mines. He used to always add salt to his beer, claiming "new American style beers don't taste right without it". He was referring to Molson Canadian. LOL

So, to circle back, would there be an award winning stock ale? deep breath

But maybe the hipster trends of drinking 50 or Black Label might reawaken the conversation.

Personally, I would nominate Northern Ale as a good candidate.

Craig wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am I just happen to have had a Two Hearted in the last month or so, and it's still great. I do wonder if it's been tweaked a little bit though, it didn't quite have the hop bite I remember from many moons ago. That could just be me and my memory, of course. I wonder how it's rep is holding up in the US, or how it would do introduced here? I suspect it's faring not that differently than SNPA, still a great beer but not the standout it used to be. I had a Side Launch Wheat yesterday, still terrific if you get it fresh. Has that recipe been tweaked? I have no clue.

I agree so much about Gose and Ritterguts in particular. It was so nice to have that around, I hope it comes back. These days I can't tell the difference between a Gose and these quickie kettle sours that everyone is making. We've talked about those before, but let's just say that's not a compliment to the local variants of the style.

Last time I had Bell's Two Hearted was 2018, and even by then I thought it had less bite, though I still loved it. Every time I revisit a west coast IPA they seem to have less bite than I remember, so I suspect breweries are tweaking the hop schedule to tone down the bitterness. Admittedly the style got a bit of a reputation and put off a lot of people with the pursuit of more IBUs and bitterness; I still talk to people who make a face if you mention IPA, recalling the bitterness, despite many of them tasting like fruit juice nowadays.

More on original topic, the best example I can think of for me is Duggan's. Now I know it lived on through contract brewing and on and off locations elsewhere in the city, but specifically the original location and beers as they were until its closure in 2011. I seem to remember being Duggan's IPA as being one of the best of the era, and their Sorachi Ace lager introduced me to the concept of single hop beers; at least outside of IPAs. It does seem that IPA #9 is still listed on the LCBO website, but I haven't come across it in years. I'd love to try that Sorachi lager again though, especially since there seems to be a wave of craft Japanese rice lagers which I've been loving lately.

Tapsucker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:13 pm [So, to circle back, would there be an award winning stock ale? deep breath

But maybe the hipster trends of drinking 50 or Black Label might reawaken the conversation.

Personally, I would nominate Northern Ale as a good candidate.

Would Creemore count as an example? I know it's not an ale, but it is a estery lager. They do seem to have an unusual yeast strain that isn't conventional. Good on Creemore for that. I recently enjoyed one, as an example of a beer from the past that is good, and it is still available today. I guess some of the Wellington brews would categorize there as well (Arkell Best Bitter comes to mind).

Cameron’s RPA?? I used to think that it was a fantastic beer.
The original version, the one available only in bombers…not this newest re-release version that was completely different.

I’ll also throw out the original Witchshark from Bellwoods.
Last time I had it, maybe 2 years ago it was a completely different animal. Definitely more east coast leaning now, compared to what it once was.

It's definitely a challenge to compare changes to a beer / recipe drift vs. changes to our tastes and palates. Tankhouse, I suspect, is a case of both. I think it's got less hoppy bite but the frame of reference (e.g. other beers that are available, personal tastes) have changed even more over the same time period.

Hoppy stouts and barleywines

seangm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:48 am
Last time I had Bell's Two Hearted was 2018, and even by then I thought it had less bite, though I still loved it. Every time I revisit a west coast IPA they seem to have less bite than I remember, so I suspect breweries are tweaking the hop schedule to tone down the bitterness. Admittedly the style got a bit of a reputation and put off a lot of people with the pursuit of more IBUs and bitterness; I still talk to people who make a face if you mention IPA, recalling the bitterness, despite many of them tasting like fruit juice nowadays.

Bell's is an odd one for me. I have always found it to have too much of a grassy/vegetal note. I like hoppy west coast style, but I could never find the magic in this. I'm not saying it's bad or over rated, but it just hasn't worked for me. I had not had it in ages, but then I did again a few years ago and got the same impression. In fact, it also seemed a bit maltier than I had previously recalled and did not like that.

It's all personal preference I guess. I'm fine with bitterness. I'd happily drink unsweetened tonic water if I could find it, or straight lemon juice if it wouldn't remove my teeth. OK, bad analogy, I don't like acrid, but I do like a balance toward bitter v.s. residual sugars and bright hop aromas v.s. dank.

BartOwl wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:14 pm

Tapsucker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:13 pm [So, to circle back, would there be an award winning stock ale? deep breath

But maybe the hipster trends of drinking 50 or Black Label might reawaken the conversation.

Personally, I would nominate Northern Ale as a good candidate.

Would Creemore count as an example? I know it's not an ale, but it is a estery lager. They do seem to have an unusual yeast strain that isn't conventional. Good on Creemore for that. I recently enjoyed one, as an example of a beer from the past that is good, and it is still available today. I guess some of the Wellington brews would categorize there as well (Arkell Best Bitter comes to mind).

I don't think Creemore would be a candidate as a regional template. Not that it's bad, just it's too marginal as an example of something that defines beer of this place and culture. IMHO.

Tapsucker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:12 pm

seangm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:48 am
Last time I had Bell's Two Hearted was 2018, and even by then I thought it had less bite, though I still loved it. Every time I revisit a west coast IPA they seem to have less bite than I remember, so I suspect breweries are tweaking the hop schedule to tone down the bitterness. Admittedly the style got a bit of a reputation and put off a lot of people with the pursuit of more IBUs and bitterness; I still talk to people who make a face if you mention IPA, recalling the bitterness, despite many of them tasting like fruit juice nowadays.

Bell's is an odd one for me. I have always found it to have too much of a grassy/vegetal note. I like hoppy west coast style, but I could never find the magic in this. I'm not saying it's bad or over rated, but it just hasn't worked for me. I had not had it in ages, but then I did again a few years ago and got the same impression. In fact, it also seemed a bit maltier than I had previously recalled and did not like that.

It's all personal preference I guess. I'm fine with bitterness. I'd happily drink unsweetened tonic water if I could find it, or straight lemon juice if it wouldn't remove my teeth. OK, bad analogy, I don't like acrid, but I do like a balance toward bitter v.s. residual sugars and bright hop aromas v.s. dank.

I'm with you on the bitterness thing, my preferred IPAs are typically ones that lean towards bitter vs. sweet, no matter if they're WC or NE-style. I've loved bitter flavours for as long as I can remember; black coffee, dark chocolate, bitter vegetables like broccoli rabe and dark greens, etc.