FUSS should come to Ontario, and is a TRUE Pint disappearing

[cratez]

I went out for what I thought was a "Pint" at Jack Asters in Whitby...for only $1 I could upgrade to a 23 Oz beer...She replied 18 Oz, 500 ml or a metric "Pint". Now Jack Asters is a big chain in Ontario and this is B.S. Moving along, I went out with my family to the Courtyard in Courtice, and most of their beers are sponsored by Molson...Kelsey's is also sponsered by Molson and serves the same glasses as the Courtyard, and on they're menu they have Pints (18 Oz).

Conclusion, the big brewers are purposely changing the pint in Canada to that of a metric one, perhaps with collusion of some restaurants big and small.

The spirit on the FUSS movement should come to Ontario, possibly on the part of the Ontario Craft Brewers to champion their members to show they still serve a true Pint, 568 ml, 20 Oz, the way it should be. Thoughts?

I think the basic problem here is that you're looking for discerning attention to detail and quality in generic chain joints that don't even pretend to offer either. Just because the Courtyard looks semi-pretentious and charges extra doesn't mean their slop is any better than Kelsey's, and as you point out they're no more inclined to offer 20oz pints. If you want solid fare and portions without getting nickel and dimed, why not support the local publican that offers "real" craft pints and freshly made food? If you don't have one, I'd say you're better off enjoying higher quality food and beer at home for much less than what you'll pay at the mega restos. My two cents.

[Belgian]

I am firmly convinced that we as consumers are socially programmed to overlook 'minor details' in content and quality as 'nit picking/no big deal', so that we don't notice that a percentage of our spending is essentially being stolen from us.

Sellers are essentially taking advantage of a good human trait, call it social consideration or a generosity of good will. (This and 'social guilt' is generally played against you if you speak up - the implication is that YOU are at fault.)

It's like the frog in the very gradually-heated pot of water, the frog doesn't think the minor changes are any big deal either, and never jumps out. Even when the water's boiling, the frog has no clue it is being 'had.'

[cattersley]

That was perfect... Exactly right.

[Tapsucker]

Having a 32 oz Stone IPA in a Vegas dump right now. Came for the WIFI and stayed for the $5.50 "pints".

Stay tuned for my next posts after I have a few more of these.

[Tapsucker]

I am firmly convinced that we as consumers are socially programmed to overlook 'minor details' in content and quality as 'nit picking/no big deal', so that we don't notice that a percentage of our spending is essentially being stolen from us.

Sellers are essentially taking advantage of a good human trait, call it social consideration or a generosity of good will. (This and 'social guilt' is generally played against you if you speak up - the implication is that YOU are at fault.)

It's like the frog in the very gradually-heated pot of water, the frog doesn't think the minor changes are any big deal either, and never jumps out. Even when the water's boiling, the frog has no clue it is being 'had.'

You pretty much summed up the "genius" of Steve Jobs. Sheep need leading, cows need milking, people need exploiting as either sheep or cows.

[Kel Varnsen]

I am firmly convinced that we as consumers are socially programmed to overlook 'minor details' in content and quality as 'nit picking/no big deal', so that we don't notice that a percentage of our spending is essentially being stolen from us.

Sellers are essentially taking advantage of a good human trait, call it social consideration or a generosity of good will. (This and 'social guilt' is generally played against you if you speak up - the implication is that YOU are at fault.)

It's like the frog in the very gradually-heated pot of water, the frog doesn't think the minor changes are any big deal either, and never jumps out. Even when the water's boiling, the frog has no clue it is being 'had.'

That is totally true. I mean I don't know how many times I have gone to a bar and ordered a beer without knowing the prices (because they weren't listed anywhere). Normally I end up just assuming it is going to be in a certain range, and sort of going further on what Belgian said I think I have been programmed to think that if I ask a server how much a beer is I am being cheap. And I still kind of think this even though I have been burned in the past by this.

[Derek]

From the CAMRA newsletter...

FUSS in the BC Legislature

This past week I learned that our FUSS Campaign has not only drawn the attention of the LCLB's top dog, but has also made its way into the BC Legislature in Victoria!

NDP MLA Shane Simpson raised the matter of serving sizes in the legislature last week, directly questioning Liberal Minister Rich Coleman (who is responsible for the LCLB/LDB) as to why the LCLB is not enforcing the law requiring licensees to provide serving size-price lists to customers. Although he did not mention CAMRA Vancouver, or FUSS, by name, the fact that Mr Simpson raised this issue during Question Period is a direct result of a meeting held between me, CAMRA Vancouver VP Dieter Friesen and Mr. Simpson.

I am not 100% certain, but I believe this may be the first time in the history of CAMRA Vancouver that we have managed to motivate an MLA to advocate on behalf of the craft beer consumers of British Columbia in the Provincial Legislature!

Mr. Coleman was frank in stating that this issue was not a top priority, but did state that the LCLB would remind licensees and inspectors about the issue and stated the LCLB would act if they received specific complaints.

If that was not enough, LCLB General Manager, Karen Ayers sent me an email stating that she will send out "reminders" in the LCLB's industry newsletter, entitled "Liquor Line", to all licensees and LCLB employees, including liquor inspectors, that it is a legal requirement for licensees to provide liquor serving size-price lists to patrons on demand. This may not sound like much, but again, this
may be a CAMRA Vancouver first, getting the LCLB to support a CAMRA initiative here in BC.

These small victories are very important in that they show CAMRA Vancouver is arriving on the political scene and is becoming known and respected as a legitimate consumer advocacy group. I am very excited and proud of our organization for being able to take this big step forward. It is exciting times in BC in regards to the craft beer industry and the upcoming possibilities for reforms to our liquor laws so lets hope we can build upon these small victories and gain more momentum in our mission to champion the cause of craft beer drinkers!

Cheers,
Paddy Treavor
CAMRA Vancouver President

[mintjellie]

Your conclusion is flawed.

This is a problem that has existed for longer than a month.

Look, we're a metric nation. You buy gas in litres and milk in litre bags. The fact that you are using millilitres to make your point reduces your point to nonsense. You are using a unit of measurement of which 500 constitutes a pint to suggest that a pint is actually 568.

Except the pint is a measurement which constitutes 1/8 of a gallon, which is not 500mL. A pint is a regulated unit of measurement under the Weights and Measures Act. There is no such thing as a metric pint.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts ... .html#h-17

MEASUREMENT OF VOLUME OR CAPACITY
Unit of Measurement Definition
(a) bushel 8 gallons
(b) peck 2 gallons
(c) gallon 454 609/100 000 000 cubic metre
(d) quart 1/4 gallon
(e) pint 1/8 gallon
(f) gill 1/32 gallon
(g) fluid ounce 1/160 gallon
(h) fluid dram 1/8 fluid ounce
(i) cubic yard a volume equal to that of a cube each side of which measures one yard
(j) cubic foot 1/27 cubic yard
(k) cubic inch 1/1 728 cubic foot
(l) [Deleted, SOR/86-854, s. 2]

[mintjellie]

or what it's worth though, a bar can serve whatever the hell it feels like as far as I'm concerned. They can call a 2oz shot glass a "pint," if they care, but you can be damned sure I wont be patronizing them if they do.

[JeffPorter]

Can't we just agree that what we refer to as a "pint of beer" is a large glass of beer roughly constituting a half litre, even though there might be give 2 or 3 oz either way?

And if people are stressing about the "give", perhaps they should ask their beers to be served in pyrex measuring cups...

[Philip1]

Can't we just agree that what we refer to as a "pint of beer" is a large glass of beer roughly constituting a half litre, even though there might be give 2 or 3 oz either way?

Yes, even on the continent where, AFAIK, they've never used imperial measurements, I hear "pint" used in bars. Outside of the UK & Ireland it is just colloquial for a large beer. Making a fuss out of it isn't going to lead to 568 ml glasses; it will just mean getting rid of "pint" on menus and servers correcting customers who ask for one.

[LondonBeer]

If they have the size listed I really don't care what they call it.