The Rhino's Controversy

cattersley · Post by **cattersley** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:13 pm

Bytowner wrote:
Derek wrote:Bytowner,

I doubt the party had any racist-intent, and so I wouldn't label them as racist.

That said, Aboriginal people feel insulted by these costumes, and that should be respected. Their culture has been continually misrepresented and the Hollywood "Cowboys & Indians" is the epitome of that.
Well, I guess I just disagree that someone feeling insulted is the standard we should have to meet. I think non-anthropologists can draw a line between race and culture pretty neatly. I don't buy that culture should be sacrosanct and that we can arbitrarily decide which ones we're allowed to have fun with and which ones we aren't.

That was money...

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:17 pm

Bytowner wrote:EDIT: Nevermind. If folks think a few hundred years of aboriginal-European relations can be compared to the Holocaust there's not much to talk about and this isn't the place anyways. Hope the Rhino doesn't suffer because of any of this.

I'm not going to compare the two, but it is an illustration of how strongly many Aboriginals feel.

It is unfortunate that the Rhino has somehow become a victim here.

cfrancis · Post by **cfrancis** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:18 am

People need to get over themselves. If they were depicting aboriginals in a negative manner then yes, be outraged, if people were just dressing up as cowboys and indians. Who the fuck cares?

Should I be wary that my kid wants to dress up as a fireman and be thinking of how the policemen think about that?

andrewrg · Post by **andrewrg** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:33 am

I think this thread has gone on long enough and should probably be locked.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:43 am

** doppelpost **

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:44 am

andrewrg wrote:I think this thread has gone on long enough and should probably be locked.

^ um, and while we're at it, should we burn every film and book that fictionalizes or even documents the relationships between Native Americans and early European settlers?

Locking this thread would be stupid, and sorry I respect your right to a free opinion but this censoring attitude (ie. 'don't talk about anything, just hyper-react to things in a PC way') is part of the problem. It doesn't help create understanding. It doesn't correct the harmful impact one group has historically made on another, or those imbalances & injustices that may still exist today.

Anyway nothing personal, just my 2¢. I will respect what the Mods feel are the parameters of Random Talk on their forum.

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:50 am

andrewrg wrote:I think this thread has gone on long enough and should probably be locked.

I kind of agree. This whole incident has really just been fuel and fodder for people's own beliefs about race, culture, and privilege.

I think there are lots of important issues to be discussed with this topic, and with regards to First Nations in general, but I haven't heard them.

It'd be interesting to discuss some of that stuff, and I'd be happy to give my opinions on it, and I don't want to detract from others' opinions or beliefs.

But right now, I feel this thread is becoming a bit of an echo chamber.

The incident has been over-reported, over-tweeted, and the conversation (here and elsewhere) is becoming circular and generally unhelpful to either The Rhino, or anyone involved that night.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:02 am

Not going to close the thread. I started it not as a discussion about race, but as one to provide support to the Rhino who I feel has taken an unfair amount of heat for something they didn't have a hand in.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:21 pm

Here's an interesting article, which I think echo's Belgian's thoughts on censorship:

"Think Canada Allows Freedom of Speech? Think Again"
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tom-kott/f ... 24999.html

As for the "Cowboys & Indians", it is the ABORIGINAL PEOPLE that find it TRULY offensive. I think that deserves the same amount of respect we'd give any other group.

Now that said, I doubt the party had any malicious intent and I am rather shocked by the social media backlash.

It's truly unfortunate that the Rhino was placed in the centre of this witch-hunt.

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:47 pm

question for you....
come Halloween time, if a girl is dressed up like a sexy Pocahontas and goes into a local establishment, should she be kicked out?

or should a bar kick out someone wearing a Cleveland Indians logo because it is a grotesque lampoon, yet allow a Chicago Blackhawks jersey in because the logo is respectful?

what is the bar's responsibility?

Tapsucker · Post by **Tapsucker** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:02 pm

Derek wrote:Here's an interesting article, which I think echo's Belgian's thoughts on censorship:

"Think Canada Allows Freedom of Speech? Think Again"
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tom-kott/f ... 24999.html

As for the "Cowboys & Indians", it is the ABORIGINAL PEOPLE that find it TRULY offensive. I think that deserves the same amount of respect we'd give any other group.

Now that said, I doubt the party had any malicious intent and I am rather shocked by the social media backlash.

It's truly unfortunate that the Rhino was placed in the centre of this witch-hunt.

Great article. The closing statement by Rowan Atkinson is spot on. I could not agree more.

Personally, I have yet to meet anyone who has ever managed to offend me. Perhaps I have been around enough nonsense to have developed the rare gift of self esteem. It doesn't mean I think being rude or hurtful to others is acceptable, it just doesn't bother me when others do it to me.

That also raises the issue of whether this incident is about hurt feelings or is it about vigilance against colonialism. Some members of our society have had a long history as victims and rightfully need to watch out for signs of potential repression. It's not that silly costumes are repressive in themselves, but the lack of respect can be a reflection of a larger lack of respect, especially when many issues between our cultures are still unresolved. Taking the high road would be wiser for all involved, including the Twitter tribe.

Weebay · Post by **Weebay** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:07 pm

Tapsucker wrote: Taking the high road would be wiser for all involved, including the Twitter tribe.

Twitter tribe...

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:15 pm

atomeyes wrote:question for you....
what is the bar's responsibility?

It is a very good question.

A bar is a business. Are they expected to have certain moral/ethical responsibilities? Or is it simply enough to provide a safe environment for their patrons?

It's great that the incident at the Rhino was resolved with a 'war of words', but what if it had resulted in an all-out riot with physical injuries?

I don't know where the lines should be drawn, but they are being drawn:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... dcast.html

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:49 pm

Cass wrote:I started it not as a discussion about race, but as one to provide support to the Rhino who I feel has taken an unfair amount of heat for something they didn't have a hand in.

This is true - if nothing else we should support the Rhino, and I think it's ridiculous that the media is asking them for comment but not those involved in the party.

Of course, it's not really about either of them anymore, but more about ourselves and how we interact with one another.

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:32 pm

One final article.
the media let it snowball and this article depicts what apparently happened.
the problem?
they don't really do anything to make the Rhino look any better.

http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.c ... ent=191032