Belgian Quad Blind Tasting Results

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:43 pm

boney wrote:Would agree that Chimay improves over the first 1-2 years, even the White. Just had a 2010 Magnum of the Blue over Christmas and felt that even at that age it may have been just starting to accumulate some wear. Could just be my tastes, though.

Having the 2006 now. It's a more delicate beer esp compared to the stronger, heavier St Bernardus 12 and the other 'big hitters' - the Bleue is not an Abt/Quad. The 2006 has smooth-subtle dark spicy-fruit & kola with some chocolate, some grapes and a hint of citrus acidity. Smells great too.
Best warmed up a bit, no point serving an aged-to-mellow beer too cold.

* -edit- *
Yes. Rochefort 10 is just in a different octane category with stronger alcohol and bigger flavors. I'd be curious to age half a case and see where it goes in 3-5-7 years - the Roche 8 was not bad but the 10 would fare better.

Definitely don't overlook the 750ml St. Bernardus 12 either! That would be some special stuff in 5 years.

spinrsx · Post by **spinrsx** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:08 pm

I have invested a good chunk of change into some of the quads at the lcbo right now. Hopefully this will pay off in the future

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:42 pm

FWIW Im drinking one of those small bottles of st bernies now (3 years old).

Just unbelievable. The vinous qualities are pretty insane and not really what I remember. Last one I drank was last New Years. The deeo fruit rich flavours are so good. Age those new bottles. I still have 5 left of the little ones, so if I drink one a year, Ill be able to get onne bottle up to 8 years old.

Age those 750ml bottles!!!

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:39 am

i know i'll get flamed, but the high-octane Belgian strongs versus a quad: i lump them all in the same category.

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:39 am

atomeyes wrote:i know i'll get flamed, but the high-octane Belgian strongs versus a quad: i lump them all in the same category.

I was going to ask that. Is there a difference between quads and say a BSA like unibroue 17?

markaberrant · Post by **markaberrant** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:11 am

I have pushed people on the Belgian Dark Strong vs Quadrupel debate, and no one can give me a real answer, even the BJCP guys. Labels are labels.

The "Quad" tasting I did to originally start this thread had my own self imposed definition - had to be over 10% abv.

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:42 pm

JeffPorter wrote:
atomeyes wrote:i know i'll get flamed, but the high-octane Belgian strongs versus a quad: i lump them all in the same category.
I was going to ask that. Is there a difference between quads and say a BSA like unibroue 17?

depends on the brewing process, in theory. it used to refer to the quantity of grain (multiples). but i think that a good example of a dubbel, tripel and quad would be Westmalle dubel versus La Trappe Quad, and Westmalle Tripel not having any similarity to the dubbel or quad.

a belgian strong dark ale, according to what i once read on beeradvocate, is another name for a quad.

except a BSA like Pannepot has spices (coriander and thyme, i think) added, where i don't recall any quads having spices.
most BSAs have candi sugar, as do quads.

in the end, it's part of my philosphy where i don't care all that much about beer labels. so many lines are crossed. like, toss some carafa special II into any light colour beer and it becomes a porter...unless you want to make a dark weizen.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:52 pm

Well there's differences of strength (Enkel Dubbel Tripel Quardupel) and some related differences in style - but these are really just for categorizing beers by our experience and our expectations of them.

For example we know it's reasonable to do a horizontal tasting of Rochefort 10, St. Bernie 12, Westvleteren 12 and Rigor Mortis. (You'd be horizontal pretty quickly too.)

It gets a little bit foggier comparing many so-named Tripels of which few seem to be much at all like Westmalle or Chimay Blanc, which I think are the original and its best imitator.

^ Not all BSAs are these styles though these styles are all BSAs. In addition there might be non-BSA's that might be more similar in style to a Quad or Tripel or Dubbel - in the sense of how we think of those beers. Fullers Vintage Ale 2013, some Belgian DIPAs...

Least I think so. It's complicated.

StephenRich · Post by **StephenRich** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:50 pm

I participated in a blind of 14 quads over half a day with 4 people in late 2011. Pretty amazing time. Hard to go wrong with such a delicious style.

Anyways, here were our results:
http://definitionale.com/epic-blind-tas ... uadrupels/
and
http://definitionale.com/epic-blind-qua ... g-results/

Order was
1 ) Cuvee van de Keizer Blauw 2011
2 ) Lost Abbey Judgement Day 2009
3 ) De Struise Pannepot 2007
4 ) Le Trappe Quad 2011
5 ) Rochefort 10 2009
6 ) Unibroue 17 2011
7 ) De Struise Pannepot Reserva 2008
8 ) Chimay Blue 2006
9 ) St. Bernardus Abt 12 2010
10 ) Snowman The Rumbum 2011
11 ) Pretty Things Baby Tree 2011
12 ) Westy 12 2010
13 ) De Struise Pennepeut 2009
14 ) Dieu Du Ciel Rigor Mortis 2011

spinrsx · Post by **spinrsx** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:04 pm

I really like Cuvee van de Keizer Blauw, I just wish it was available at the lcbo in a smaller format. Just a bit too sweet and 750ml starts to wear on me.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:14 pm

^ although some (or many?) aren't Quads/Abts. Blind tastings are the great bullshit detector though Rich so does it matter?!! Thanks for sharing the interesting results.

I see the rankings place some (what should be) well-aged classics very low. What does this mean - were any outright unenjoyable, or were they close in rank? Also I'm sure you could have thrown Trois Pistoles in the mix along with Chimay Bleue. Cheers.

StephenRich · Post by **StephenRich** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:37 pm

Sure, some may be Belgian Dark Strong Ales... But now we're just splitting hairs. Depending which book you subscribe to, the difference between Quad and BDSA is either non-existent or negligible in my opinion. So we easily piled them all together. I would have loved to add a Trois Pistoles in there along with a few others, but we had just gathered what we all had in stock at the time.

It was interesting having a range of ages thrown in here - most interesting at the end as we unveiled the participating beers after tallying the scores. Proved to me that all beers fluctuate overtime and go through an ageing curve - assuming proper storage conditions.

The Chimay Blue for example, 5 years old at the time. Mediocre scores... However I had a 9 year old Chimay last year, and it was significantly better than what we tasted, which to my recollection was oddly thin and one sided.

The 09 Judgement Day and 07 Pannepot were both jems as the scores show. But an 09 Rochefort 10 was a whole 5 points lower than the Judgement day. Never expected that out of one of my most respected Quads. Yet MJ, Garret Oliver and more go on at length about how that beer will shine in 10+ years. Still looking for that experience...

That fresh Le trappe was perfect, but Xmas '12 I opened a 1999 La Trappe... I was so excited... But... We couldn't even fake it.. It sucked. Thin, bland, and just grape juicy... damn.

The Blauw easily stole the show scoring over 4 points higher than the next. The unfortunate aspect of this beer, and more Quads as I am realizing recently, is that there seems to be some recent variability in its production and flavour profile. That 11 Blauw was the same fresh Blauw I had in '10, '09, and '08 when I first tried it. But as everyone here has probably tasted, then '12 and '13 that hit the LCBO were significantly sweeter... damn. I am hoping that this will equate to better long term potential for this, one of my favourite all time beers... But only time will tell.

Anyone had some great/shitty experiences with aged Quads?

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:47 pm

Rich it's a fine BSA tasting however you split hairs - or don't. Even Abts are thought to be darker than Quads so we'd taste darker fruits in Bernardus Abt VS peachy notes in La Trappe Quad - although how many of each are really to be found to make a 'category'?

I have never aged a Quad I didn't like, but the Roche 8 does thin out if you don't shake up the bottles a week before opening. Aging the Rochefort it gets very clear and there's a big layer of of great-smelling dark sediment over the yeast sediment. Word to the wise for aging the 10, or perhaps any long-aging beer - suspended fine solids (not yeast) actually have flavor!

The 2012 Van de Keyzer Blauw last year I loved in spite of it's being so 'fat' - more brewing-literate people have told me this is sub-par for the brand, but it's just a really nice full tasting brew.

I'd like to chase down that original Pannepot someday! Non-reserve.

Looks from your report like this whole game of cellaring even stronger BSAs is hit-and-miss, in terms of how good the batch is, and how well it ages by whose hands, and until when.

StephenRich · Post by **StephenRich** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:18 pm

Quad, BDSA, ABT... Its all the same delicious dark fruit to me

Sadly, enjoying these vintage Quads has been more variable than I'd like. I hope to attribute at least some of this to improper storage - as many of the bottles I've been privy to enjoying came from a bar, trade, or friend. Thankfully though I am coming up on several 5 year olds in my cellar now... So hopefully I'll enjoy a "fruitful" future of vintage quads!

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:32 pm

StephenRich wrote:... So hopefully I'll enjoy a "fruitful" future of vintage quads!

(groan at play on words ) - well if it's your own well-controlled cellar it can pay off dividends. Enjoy those awesome sleeping beauties.

boney wrote:The Cuvee Van de Keizer Blauw is an absolute beast, no matter the age. Had a 2006 about a year ago with massive diabetes inducing caramel, dark fruit and port notes. Sitting on a nearly complete 7 year vertical that needs to be broken out one of these days.

That sounds aesome by the way. I should make a stew with that one next time.