Should Ontario lower the drinking age to 18?

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:33 am

Ontario's sandwiched between two provinces with a drinking age of 18.

Is it time that our drinking age is lowered to 18?

Arguments for:
-more tax revenue
-less "illegal" drinking from minors
-less migration of tax dollars to Quebec (18 y.o.s who drive from Ottawa to Gatineau every weekend to drink)
-possibly more responsible drinking if introduced at 18

Arguments against:
-status quo works
-drinking age is 21 in the US and 19 is already more "liberal"
-increased irresponsible drinking
-groups like MADD will claim there will be increased risks in impaired driving (even though i'd argue the opposite)

THoughts?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:54 am

I've always thought that the rule should be if you're old enough for first year university, you're old enough to buy a beer. Which I guess means the cutoff should be 18 or 17 if you're born after September of that calendar year. It was weird for me going to uni and being one of like three guys in my dorm who had to use a fake ID.

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:17 am

squeaky wrote:I've always thought that the rule should be if you're old enough for first year university, you're old enough to buy a beer. Which I guess means the cutoff should be 18 or 17 if you're born after September of that calendar year. It was weird for me going to uni and being one of like three guys in my dorm who had to use a fake ID.

that's part of my thinking as well.
now that grade 13 no longer exists, then university age should be the drinking age.

groulxsome · Post by **groulxsome** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:34 am

How about you get an endorsement on your ID when you graduate highschool (diploma to DMV) allowing you to buy liquor? Either you have that endorsement or you have to be 19+. Gives a little insensitive to graduate (yet no disadvantage if you do not) and would allow kids that are just going to party too hard in first year of uni (and flop or fail) to get a little of it out of their system over the summer. It ties drinking more to a socially accepted level of adulthood (completed childhood education) rather than some arbitrary age.

nickw · Post by **nickw** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:18 am

Maybe it's the Manitoban in me (where drinking age is 18 ), but I've long held the belief that if you're viewed as an adult by the rest of bureaucracy and society as a whole (to be tried as an adult in court, to purchase other restricted items like lottery tickets and pornography, to appear on a jury, to join the armed forces, get married without parental consent, to vote, all of which happen at 18 years of age), then you should treat 18 year olds as adults when it comes to purchasing alcohol and tobacco.

nickw · Post by **nickw** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:22 am

But I think if we want to be creative, groulxsome's idea is certainly interesting. If the province is worried about graduation rates, giving kids an incentive to finish could definitely yield positive benefits (alongside improved educational approaches, of course

)

MatttthewGeorge · Post by **MatttthewGeorge** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:58 am

nickw wrote:Maybe it's the Manitoban in me (where drinking age is 18 ), but I've long held the belief that if you're viewed as an adult by the rest of bureaucracy and society as a whole (to be tried as an adult in court, to purchase other restricted items like lottery tickets and pornography, to appear on a jury, to join the armed forces, get married without parental consent, to vote, all of which happen at 18 years of age), then you should treat 18 year olds as adults when it comes to purchasing alcohol and tobacco.

BINGO!

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:26 pm

nickw wrote:Maybe it's the Manitoban in me (where drinking age is 18 ), but I've long held the belief that if you're viewed as an adult by the rest of bureaucracy and society as a whole (to be tried as an adult in court, to purchase other restricted items like lottery tickets and pornography, to appear on a jury, to join the armed forces, get married without parental consent, to vote, all of which happen at 18 years of age), then you should treat 18 year olds as adults when it comes to purchasing alcohol and tobacco.

yeah, i'm also from Winnipeg. 18's the right age to drink. seems strange to be in 1st year university but not to be able to consume beer?

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:46 pm

I would suggest earlier mid-late teen allowances to drink under direct parent supervision so people get used to small quantities. Then I would support independent drinking about a year before people go away to post-secondary school. The more 'normalized' people are to drinking socially, the less it may interfere with their first-year PS Ed studies and finances, etc.

This ^ is more the European model and even in practice here - those kids I know of are the most balanced. Take away the taboo, allow drinking early enough, kids won't be drinking in treehouses and knocking back mickeys outside of clubs. Alcohol is a furtive act for the young in Onterrible and this is the most damaging thing - the hiding and playing games. It may even set up lifelong patterns of abuse.

sofakingdrunk · Post by **sofakingdrunk** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:21 am

nickw wrote:Maybe it's the Manitoban in me (where drinking age is 18 ), but I've long held the belief that if you're viewed as an adult by the rest of bureaucracy and society as a whole (to be tried as an adult in court, to purchase other restricted items like lottery tickets and pornography, to appear on a jury, to join the armed forces, get married without parental consent, to vote, all of which happen at 18 years of age), then you should treat 18 year olds as adults when it comes to purchasing alcohol and tobacco.

Couldn't agree more

lister · Post by **lister** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:55 am

I've long held the same thoughts as nickw and Belgian.

The age 21 limit in some parts of the US is ridiculous. Why is alcohol the one thing you have to wait three years for? Minors can use cars and guns (?!?!) but when it comes to evil alcohol... tut tut, can't allow that. Fucked up Americans.

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:45 am

lister wrote:I've long held the same thoughts as nickw and Belgian.

The age 21 limit in some parts of the US is ridiculous. Why is alcohol the one thing you have to wait three years for? Minors can use cars and guns (?!?!) but when it comes to evil alcohol... tut tut, can't allow that. Fucked up Americans.

as Robert Pollard sang, you have to be 21 to drink but you can be 18 to go and die for your country.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:16 pm

atomeyes wrote: as Robert Pollard sang, you have to be 21 to drink but you can be 18 to go and die for your country.

Yeah, that's kind of messed up.

The university age isn't necessarily a good guide though since with early birthdays and "fast tracking" and such you can have pretty young frosh now, like 16.

sprague11 · Post by **sprague11** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:20 pm

Fwiw the one time i saw Pollard live he was plastered.

iguenard · Post by **iguenard** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:34 pm

I live in Quebec, have lived here since I was 12. Underage drinking exists way before 18. If it was up to me, you'd get your driving permit 2 years after you start drinking. That way you learn how to drink before you get a chance at killing someone with a car.

From 15 to 25, when does one begin to drink responsibly? I think its more related to one's aptitudes rather than one's age.