Fort York - which day?

[Blankboy]

Jon, you've pretty much said everything I was thinking. Well written. The lack of water was my biggest problem / concern by far. I will not pay to go to this event ever again.

Ken/Perry - save your good one-offs for the Judge or other decent fests!

Well I've never been but after reading these comments it looks like I didn't miss much. Makes the loss of the St. Lawrence Beer Fest even more tragic.

[old faithful]

I've been many times including last year. The weather is not the fault of the organisers. The water situation however should not have been as described. I used to bring my own water but it is understandable not everyone would and I agree it should be available for free. The portable pottie odor problem should not have occurred although I seem to recall something similar last year and I suppose the weather was a factor.

As for commercial beers, non-beers booths, dancers, this was a beer festival, not a craft beer festival. The frat crowd (whom I don't recall much in evidence in previous years) drink beer just like we do. I am reminded of the statement of CAMRA stalwarts in England in reponse to remarks that heavy bearded men in sweaters seem to form a large part of the real ale crowd that, hey they drink beer too and it's a free world. Same thing with the frat group or any other (law abiding) group.

Really what many here (including me) want is an all-craft beer festival but this wasn't that. It was organised by Beer Store I think (or they were a sponsor) so everyone knows it is an industry-wide event and there was still plenty of micro beer there. Maybe if Ralph gets his planned real ale festival off to the races the craft beer fans will have a better event but I've enjoyed this fest in the past as being part of the beer scene and valid on its terms.

It's really too bad about the weather, I heard similar complaints about the Danforth Festival, but that wasn't peoples' fault but rather mother nature (unless one feels it should be held during a cooler time in Toronto).

As for the line-up problem, I'm with you there, it was similar last year I think. I was able last year to go on Friday at 2:00 p.m. when there were not lots of people there at the beginning.

I should say finally that beer knowledge is really at a premium even at very beer-aware events. I can't count the times I've been told, "I'm just pouring the beer and don't know anything about it" even at strictly craft beer tables. Brewers can't always control this and when I suss the level of knowledge as too low I decamp quickly.

None of this is to say they shouldn't improve the event. The early closing hours in particular are a negative and in my view represent an overly cautious attitude. Closing at 10:00 p.m. would be much better for all three nights if not even later. The organisers can ensure security sufficient to ward off any trouble on-site.

Gary

[Wheatsheaf]

Thumbs up to the Scotch Irish and Black Oak offerings I had on Friday, especially the Major Misconduct (quite different from last year's superb version, with massively more fresh hop character--not going overboard, but getting close), and the barrel-aged Nut Brown (amazing what a week in a whiskey barrel will do). Mill Street's Wit was also very nice, and is perhaps the best beer that I've had from them.

Big thumbs down to the festival organizers. Being advised to walk a kilometre to the other entrance for no apparent reason, and having to stand in line for a good 45 minutes is pretty lame--particularly for a festival that's in its tenth year. The icing on the cake was being told that I'd have to dump my bottle of water before getting in. There was no such idiocy last year, so whoever decided to complicate the entry process by adding finicky bar-coded tickets, hand stamps, bag checks, water confiscation, etc. is a horse's ass.

I would agree that after a few years of attendance, the list of reasons for going back gets shorter and shorter.

[old faithful]

Well that's a change and too much, I never had issues bringing my own water in past years.

Gary

[HogTownHarry]

This year was my first at Fort York - I had heard about "drunken frat boys" for a few years, but I figured Friday afternoon was safe (wrong!). And I had the afternoon off already. And I live about 2 km away. And I really wanted some of that Black Oak Whiskey Barrel Aged Nutbrown. So I went.

I didn't buy a ticket in advance, got to the back of the line at 2:30 and was passed through the gate 10 minutes later - yes, I felt bad for those who paid in advance, I even asked "so, do I go to the back of THAT line now?"

I may go again in a few years, but only if I get in free. My $25 got me FIVE tasting tokens, 4 of which immediately went for a full portion of Perry's Chaplain's Solace (I had another later, very nice indeed). The number of seriously intoxicated and obnoxious members of both sexes lurching around by 3pm was pretty shocking.

In all I paid $25 to get in, another $20 for more tokens, and $2 for a bottle of water. I walked to the event and home, so no TTC or parking costs. Even though there was certainly plenty of swill-tasting opportunity (Patagonia - whuh!), when you factor in the smell, water-gouging et al, this was not good value for money at all - I have enjoyed every tasting event at BeerBistro considerably more, and I always hear complaints about how "expensive" those are. Unless someone can bring back the St. Lawrence Craft Brew Festival next year, the only events I intend to attend will be at BeerBistro (and Volo and Joe's, if they can be convinced to host something).

But at least I've attended once. Cheers, all - see you at the Golden Tap Awards.

[old faithful]

You know it's funny, but when you read the "master", Michael Jackson, he never seems head-over-heels about beer festivals. Maybe having spent half a lifetime at them in a working capacity he can't get too excited about them. I always enjoy them, they are not easy to get right, true. The main thing is really to leave people alone as much as possible and don't require thimbleful-size servings. And I hate that stuff about bar coding and stamping, usually it is not necessary and kind of bureaucratic. But I'm saying even at their best these fests seem to get mixed reaction from some of the masters of beer themselves (including I would think many brewers). But they are a showcase for the industry and will always be around. I'll tell you, if bartowel simply had more nights out where this group could gather at one of our excellent pubs and bars that would be festival enough for me.

Gary

[Steve Beaumont]

For everyone dissatisfied with Fort York, I'll just remind you that the upcoming Golden Tap Awards and GTA Beer Festival at beerbistro costs only $20 (in advance; call 416-861-9872), for which you get four half-glasses or two full glasses of beer plus unlimited food and FREE WATER! It all takes place from 2 - 7 PM August 20, with the Awards being handed out at 7:00.

Granted, there won't be any special one-offs from Perry, but I've heard rumours that there may be one or two beers of interest coming. Besides, it promises to be a fun time.

[Jon Walker]

The weather is not the fault of the organisers.

It's really too bad about the weather, I heard similar complaints about the Danforth Festival, but that wasn't peoples' fault but rather mother nature (unless one feels it should be held during a cooler time in Toronto).

Huh? I don't think anyone suspects the hot weather was their responsibility. Better hot and sunny than cold and rainy. The point wasn't the weather or the time of year, the point was solely that they didn't properly accomodate people's needs during such heat; adequate, affordable (or free) water in the event and short, organized lines with available water and bathrooms for those forced to line up in the heat. I understand you agree with both...but why did you think somebody suggested they were somehow at fault regarding the weather?

The water situation however should not have been as described. I used to bring my own water but it is understandable not everyone would

Or COULD...I had some water with me, in a sealed bottle no less, and a rather beligerent female security guard made me pour it out. She kicked one guy out because he poured his bottle out as requested and some splashed on her foot. Now that's moronic and reckless.

As for your other points defending the fest...you're entitled to your opinion (even though you weren't actually there this time). But I don't need it to be a real ale fest or to be restricted to only people like me...I'd just like it to be about...crazy concept...BEER not alcopop. Otherwise change the name to the Toronto Bar Beverage Fest or the Great Canadian Drunkfest.

[JerCraigs]

For everyone dissatisfied with Fort York, I'll just remind you that the upcoming Golden Tap Awards and GTA Beer Festival at beerbistro costs only $20 (in advance; call 416-861-9872), for which you get four half-glasses or two full glasses of beer plus unlimited food and FREE WATER! It all takes place from 2 - 7 PM August 20, with the Awards being handed out at 7:00.

Hold on - unlimited food? Those are two of my most favoritest words in the whole wide world.

In addition to their fine selection of Toronto's finest Agua de Tap, I also enjoy Beer Bistro's delightful cooling service, or "air conditioning" if you will.

[Gunny]

Or COULD...I had some water with me, in a sealed bottle no less, and a rather beligerent female security guard made me pour it out. She kicked one guy out because he poured his bottle out as requested and some splashed on her foot. Now that's moronic and reckless.

Give someone authority without reason and that's what you get. GD rent-a-cops!

[BeerMonger]

To those of you wishing for longer hours at this event you need only read the post complaining about drunks by 3Pm! To increase the hours is only to encourage intoxication.

There have been problems with drunken/rowdy behaviour at this event in the past, nothing too significant but there has been potential...

Enjoy the event as a beer fest, nothing more nothing less. As for the complaint of other types ofvendors. etc., I don't get it. I must attend many events around the City as part of my vocation and see such occurrences as model agencies and the like at the Molson Indy...so why would anyone expect to get only beer at a beerfest? It pays the bills when you have exhibitors willing to purchase space in order to inform a segment of the population about their product. Thats just the way it is.

Perhaps the answer to some of these complaints may lie in the possibility that the size of the event has outgrown the venue? Just a thought.

[Cass]

Perhaps the answer to some of these complaints may lie in the possibility that the size of the event has outgrown the venue? Just a thought.

I identified the venue as a serious problem FIVE years ago in 2000. Read my original review here:

http://www.bartowel.com/torbeerfest.phtml

Jon echoed most of the sentiments I feel, which is that the beer fest is garbage. I really don't enjoy myself there for a number of reasons. The only reason I go is to see some familiar faces and support the brewers who dish out their hard-earned cash to participate.

And as Stephen said, if you want a nice time sharing some drinks with good people I encourage you to go to the GTAwards. We may not have the beer selection of a bigger fest, but I'll be damned if criticizing fests over the years hasn't taught me to organize something better.

[Jon Walker]

Enjoy the event as a beer fest, nothing more nothing less.

I would love to. But that's the point, it isn't one.

As for the complaint of other types of vendors. etc., I don't get it. I must attend many events around the City as part of my vocation and see such occurrences as model agencies and the like at the Molson Indy...so why would anyone expect to get only beer at a beerfest?

For the same reason I don't expect steak on a vegetarian buffet, a cigar booth at the health show, a dune buggy running amidst the Indy cars...the name of the event doesn't encompass these incongruous elements. To speak to your modeling booth at the Indy analogy...would you be happy if the Indy started to be LESS about racing cars and MORE about modelling agencies? What if several of the racing car companies stayed away from the event because General Motors decided to take up several of the pit areas to showcase their new minivans? Would you feel like your "Indy" experience, which you paid for, was being adulterated? This isn't about peripheral vendors, this is about deep pocketed corporations that are DIRECTLY undermining what the event is supposed to be, or at least IMHO SHOULD be.

I don't know how many beer fests you've been to, and I don't want to seem condesending, but compare this fiasco in Toronto to the Mondiale in Montreal, the Buffalo Brewfest, the Victoria CAMRA Fest, Chicago and literally DOZENS of other, better events truly deserving of the title "Beer Festival". Maybe then you'll see why we're dissappointed and quite frankly fed up.

[BeerMonger]

Jon, I don't disagree with your sentiments whatsoever, my only point being is that what we would like the event to be and what the event must actually be (to pay the bills) are two very different things.

Also, I know lots of guys and gals who would never consider drinking anything but Blue Light or the ilk yet they still find the event to be an attraction-outdoors, meet people, etc. They are really not interested in experimenting with various beers. Personally speaking, I prefer your concept of the event but would it still sell? Perhaps I should say, would it still be as profitable? I think we both know the answer.

Cass, Since I am reasonably new to this board I had not read your 2000 review, it would seem that you could copy and paste it for 2005. Regarding the GTA Awards, I had read your previous postings and considered attending but, alas, I must be at yet another event on that day (honest). Maybe another time.

[the DL]

Complain Complain Comlplain... people its a beerfest!!! I dont know what most of you expected but it is put on for the masses. The people who put on this event do it as a job.....therefore want to make money at it.
As a beek geek myself I understand everything that is on this post but you all should be smart enough to know what an event of this size is going to be like. Now most of you have have been before so you already no what it is like.

As for the water- I agree stupid

Cost- again business is business

Venders- all these companies want exposure and this is a great place to get it

People lets just accept it for what it is.....as Steelback would say
"it is what it is"- now have a drink relax and enjoy the weather, people and beer...till next year


Cheers