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We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS
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- Posts: 472
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:41 pm
- Location: Burlington
True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.
Bellwoods does a ton of such releases a year and Nickel Brook did something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).
There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO. I think the original question was why don't they do them anymore. Maybe they make more money on these other releases the stuff is easier to mass produce and they can use it to expand their market, but, they don't do because they lose money.
Bellwoods does a ton of such releases a year and Nickel Brook did something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).
There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO. I think the original question was why don't they do them anymore. Maybe they make more money on these other releases the stuff is easier to mass produce and they can use it to expand their market, but, they don't do because they lose money.
You're making a valid point but your math is way off.BakaGaijin wrote:True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.
...something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).
40,000 x $16 = $640,000 revenue for the LCBO, NOT the brewery
the revenue to NB is the price they sell to the 'BO.
Not to be forgotten are the customer returns (if any complaints for bad product), discounts taken to clear and any other shyte the 'BO charges back to the brewery which further reduce bottom line.
... same for brewery sales to the public out of the bottle shops: part of the sale price is comprised of various taxes. Therefore, the brewery does NOT record the full sell price as revenue.
@markhamwhisky
uhh, can we make this a thing?Masterplan wrote:There is no distro fee.
The argument isn't that you can't make money, it's that you make more money doing other stuff.BakaGaijin wrote:True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.
Bellwoods does a ton of such releases a year and Nickel Brook did something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).
There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO. I think the original question was why don't they do them anymore. Maybe they make more money on these other releases the stuff is easier to mass produce and they can use it to expand their market, but, they don't do because they lose money.
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- Posts: 472
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:41 pm
- Location: Burlington
Fair enough. Rumour is that Amsterdam is actively trying to get bought out by big beer....so making their bottom line as appealing as possible makes sense.Craig wrote:The argument isn't that you can't make money, it's that you make more money doing other stuff.BakaGaijin wrote:True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.
Bellwoods does a ton of such releases a year and Nickel Brook did something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).
There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO. I think the original question was why don't they do them anymore. Maybe they make more money on these other releases the stuff is easier to mass produce and they can use it to expand their market, but, they don't do because they lose money.
Personally, I have found all of their recent releases very 'meh'. Double Tempest was worst batch ever. Maverik and Gose was gross and thier saisons have been mediocre.
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- Posts: 472
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:41 pm
- Location: Burlington
Sure, I agree. I'm just pointing out that large volume/revenue is happening in this style. A lot of this beer is actually being sold in Ohio and New York State.portwood wrote:You're making a valid point but your math is way off.BakaGaijin wrote:True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.
...something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).
40,000 x $16 = $640,000 revenue for the LCBO, NOT the brewery
the revenue to NB is the price they sell to the 'BO.
Not to be forgotten are the customer returns (if any complaints for bad product), discounts taken to clear and any other shyte the 'BO charges back to the brewery which further reduce bottom line.
... same for brewery sales to the public out of the bottle shops: part of the sale price is comprised of various taxes. Therefore, the brewery does NOT record the full sell price as revenue.
- Blasphomet
- Posts: 446
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:07 am
Yeah just Ontario. Checking out the new guys like Common Good and Halo along with personal favourites like Burdock and Bellwoods... amongst the many others... and my local 5 Paddles.midlife crisis wrote:From Ontario, or elsewhere?Blasphomet wrote: God I sound like such a picky bastard here lately. Maybe just because I've been spoiling myself with 'brewery only' beer from all over and enjoying the hell out of it.
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- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:00 pm
- Location: Toronto
Thanks. I haven't ventured out to Common Good or 5 Paddles, must do that. I quite like the other three you mentioned and second your recommendation (re. Bellwoods, the new Hafis Road premises).
Living in Scarborough I was only really visiting Left Field every few weeks with it being a pretty short drive. I've started going to the Bellwoods now that they opened the Hafis shop but I totally forgot about Common Good and it's the nearest brewery to me. How's the quality there?Blasphomet wrote:Yeah just Ontario. Checking out the new guys like Common Good and Halo along with personal favourites like Burdock and Bellwoods... amongst the many others... and my local 5 Paddles.midlife crisis wrote:From Ontario, or elsewhere?Blasphomet wrote: God I sound like such a picky bastard here lately. Maybe just because I've been spoiling myself with 'brewery only' beer from all over and enjoying the hell out of it.
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- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2584
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:40 pm
- Location: Mississauga
- Contact:
Exactly. I remember when Tempest was first released ... maybe Ontario's first ever bottled imperial stout? At that time, that was awesome! For a while, they were producing some very interesting beer at their former Bathurst Street location, albeit it many of them were extremely limited runs.Craig wrote:In fairness, the hoopla was never about the blonde or big wheel. It was about beers like (double) tempest, sour cherry IS and deWallen. They were making those 3-4 years ago when the styles were a lot rarer.
They also had interesting one off releases. Anyone remember Lady Stav and Goedenmorgen?
It's degree of profit directly BUT also degree of marketing value for your company's overall profit. Amsterdam has us hardcore Beer Geeks lining up for those few beers now and again, but those of us buying the one-offs and Tempest aren't buying their regular stuff.Craig wrote:The argument isn't that you can't make money, it's that you make more money doing other stuff.BakaGaijin wrote:There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO.
So there's no point Amsterdam making a 'flagship' beer the way Goose Island or Samuel Adams does if that costly beer does not have the value of promoting your brand image or by association promoting sales of your other stuff.
Now, I will likely buy Sam Adams Lager or Goose Islands IPA if it's on tap or get it for the cottage, as I have some respect for the mainstream side of the brand and those are very fine highly drinkable beers. The 'regular' Amsterdam brands I like far less and I'd outright avoid them, to be quite honest.
So Utopias or Bourbon County do have promotional value, and Double Tempest really does not - it's not selling me any Big Wheel or Blonde or anything like that (* although how's the Boneshaker doing lately?)
I have the sense Amsterdam has never figured out its ongoing relevance to the 'real' craft beer market, or seen where these other ultra-premium beers tie into it all - that's just my 2 cents.
(* And it's time I ordered a Boneshaker and a Wee Heavy just so I know what's up with them these days.)
Last edited by Belgian on Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In Beerum Veritas
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- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:00 pm
- Location: Toronto
Spring Bock the first couple of years was really good. There was a smoked beer -- a porter I think -- that was terrific. A few others. I too am thinking of the Bathurst St days.TheSevenDuffs wrote:Exactly. I remember when Tempest was first released ... maybe Ontario's first ever bottled imperial stout? At that time, that was awesome! For a while, they were producing some very interesting beer at their former Bathurst Street location, albeit it many of them were extremely limited runs.
Teichert Smoked Porter was kind of a one-off. Haven't seen it in five years maybe?
We've had prior bottled Russian Imperial Stouts - from Wellington, Scotch Irish, and sorta GR Russian Gun.
We've had prior bottled Russian Imperial Stouts - from Wellington, Scotch Irish, and sorta GR Russian Gun.
In Beerum Veritas
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- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:00 pm
- Location: Toronto
I notice Russuan Gun is in cans this year.
Maybe Kyle can brew that at HHOE. The Nightman Cometh was also great, and that was Jeremy's from Barncat.Belgian wrote:Teichert Smoked Porter was kind of a one-off. Haven't seen it in five years maybe?
I believe both won a chance to brew their beer at Amsterdam.
"There's always money in the banana stand."