Recently at a private bar in Kingston (part of a cycling event) I participated in an informal tasting of five beers. The tasting was semi-blind (we knew the brands but not which was in each glass). The brands were Canadian, Blue, Waterloo Dark, Corona and I think Stella, or maybe it was Heineken. Of course the dark disqualified itself by its colour (but still tasting very good). Of the rest, I decided to try to pick only the next beer. It was Blue and I thought it was Canadian. Since these are neck and neck competitors, one can assume their flavours will be similar (kind of like Coke and Pepsi) so I didn't do too badly. The Blue wasn't bad. It was faultless in its condition having no oxidative or light-struck qualities whatever. Also, there seemed no trace of its being pasteurised, no burnt caramel tinge. It was lightly malty (sweetish) and the adjunct seemed less noticeable than before. I wonder if the spec has been tweaked. There was a light flowery hop taste to it. Judged by its international lager set, it was pretty good. It was better than Budweiser, better than Corona, better even than Stella or Heineken (which of late have tasted rather bland to me). It is not for everyone and perhaps for few here but it is a good product on its own terms (mass market lager category). Its success to date however depends like so many beers of its type on marketing and distribution techniques and they will determine its future.
Gary
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Blind Tasting Result
Yes... Steelback, Steelback, Steelback, Steelback...and Coors Light!Blankboy wrote:The big question is: why do you punish yourself like this? Especially if you knew the brands going in? "Let's see, it's between shit, shit, shit, shit and shit -- this should be fun". Could they have picked 5 worse beers? Hmmm...
I'm not sure what you expected posting something like this - but that's just plain silly to put it politely.
“Judged by its international lager set, it was pretty good.”
Isn’t that sort of like saying “Judging it within the class of bland, mass produced [insert product type], Brand X is the best of the bunch!”
When it comes right down to it, declaring the best macro brew is really sort of counterproductive to the basic raison d'etre of a site like this, or good beer advocaters. Approaching something blind, or with an open mind is interesting, perhaps even admirabale, but without setting the quality bar a little higher it is sort of a useless endeavour.
“Judged by its international lager set, it was pretty good.”
Isn’t that sort of like saying “Judging it within the class of bland, mass produced [insert product type], Brand X is the best of the bunch!”
When it comes right down to it, declaring the best macro brew is really sort of counterproductive to the basic raison d'etre of a site like this, or good beer advocaters. Approaching something blind, or with an open mind is interesting, perhaps even admirabale, but without setting the quality bar a little higher it is sort of a useless endeavour.
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old faithful
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I have a lot of different kind of beer experiences. I thought this would be of interest to some and this site is about beer and I like to give my opinion on beers occasionally that aren't normally spoken about here. I had no choice over the selection and a couple of people at the table tried their hand at guessing which was which, that's all. If some of you don't enjoy these commercial beers, fine, but some of us do on occasion. The Waterloo Dark was a good craft beer so there was an alternative to the commercial group but I'm saying the cleaness and technical quality of Labatt Blue appealed to me in the context of the other blond beers, that is all. These comments are sincerely intended and my opinion of course so please take them as such.
Gary
Gary
If you can take this type of punishment I'll set you up with a blind taste test between Steelback and FAXE products...it'll drive you bugs trying to figure out which brand of dextrose extract you're drinking 
Last edited by pootz on Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aventinus rules!
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old faithful
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Pootz, the Faxe Amber wasn't bad, but it still has a mass-market taste to me. I am not sure if the use of dextrose (if this is really used, I thought Faxe were all-malt brewers) has much to do with it: pasteurisation and canning may explain the taste more. As you know many Belgian beers rely on added sugars of some kind..
Still, it isn't bad. I know people who know beer well but not as "connoisseurs" who like it a lot. Ditto for the Rickards range of beers. That caramelised, mild taste appeals to many, in other words.
On the more assertive side of the spectrum, the new Great Eastern IPA was essayed last night (at Volo). It is well made and has the right taste for what it is: an American-style IPA. No off-flavours or weird effects, these guys are brewing true and it will appeal to those who like the style (I still prefer the English style using Goldings and other English hops). It had a kind of green pepper taste that would accompany certain foods well (e.g. Mexican dishes).
Then I tried the Black Oak Saison. It wasn't bad but had an interesting, juniper-like aftertaste I couldn't place. I prefer Saison with a coriander edge and somewhat acidulous (as many of the Ardennes saisons are) but it is a good stab at the style.
Finally, earlier in the week, I tried a Carlsberg because a poster mentioned that the Moosehead-brewed version was closer to the original than what Labatt's had brewed.
It had a kind of grainy taste that showed some influence of its origins (at least as I recall the beer from 20 years ago in Europe) but the adjunct use was evident and put me off. Probably the label considers this tart or acidic-like effect to be liked by many (because not "sweet") but I couldn't get past it. The Carlsberg I recall from 20 years ago in Europe was malty and flowery from hops, a lager to be sure but creamy and appetizing, this version was rather different (and seemed different from the Carlsberg I recall when first brewed in Canada). I wonder, if all-malt was used here and more hops, if it wouldn't approach the original more, I think it would because the "potential" is in the Canadian version, but not realised IMO.
Gary
Still, it isn't bad. I know people who know beer well but not as "connoisseurs" who like it a lot. Ditto for the Rickards range of beers. That caramelised, mild taste appeals to many, in other words.
On the more assertive side of the spectrum, the new Great Eastern IPA was essayed last night (at Volo). It is well made and has the right taste for what it is: an American-style IPA. No off-flavours or weird effects, these guys are brewing true and it will appeal to those who like the style (I still prefer the English style using Goldings and other English hops). It had a kind of green pepper taste that would accompany certain foods well (e.g. Mexican dishes).
Then I tried the Black Oak Saison. It wasn't bad but had an interesting, juniper-like aftertaste I couldn't place. I prefer Saison with a coriander edge and somewhat acidulous (as many of the Ardennes saisons are) but it is a good stab at the style.
Finally, earlier in the week, I tried a Carlsberg because a poster mentioned that the Moosehead-brewed version was closer to the original than what Labatt's had brewed.
It had a kind of grainy taste that showed some influence of its origins (at least as I recall the beer from 20 years ago in Europe) but the adjunct use was evident and put me off. Probably the label considers this tart or acidic-like effect to be liked by many (because not "sweet") but I couldn't get past it. The Carlsberg I recall from 20 years ago in Europe was malty and flowery from hops, a lager to be sure but creamy and appetizing, this version was rather different (and seemed different from the Carlsberg I recall when first brewed in Canada). I wonder, if all-malt was used here and more hops, if it wouldn't approach the original more, I think it would because the "potential" is in the Canadian version, but not realised IMO.
Gary
old faithful wrote:Pootz, the Faxe Amber wasn't bad, but it still has a mass-market taste to me. I am not sure if the use of dextrose (if this is really used, I thought Faxe were all-malt brewers) has much to do with it: pasteurisation and canning may explain the taste more. As you know many Belgian beers rely on added sugars of some kind..
Still, it isn't bad. I know people who know beer well but not as "connoisseurs" who like it a lot. Ditto for the Rickards range of beers. That caramelised, mild taste appeals to many, in other words.
Please don't take this the wrong way Gary...I really respect your accumen and insights and I do not want to challenge your personal opinions and preferences, however the idea of letting mediocre tasting beers made with high volume processed food industry processes and ingredients, off the hook with this concept of "not bad", is a bit of a stickler issue with me.
The obvious lack of grain protiens in the FAXE beer (which produce natural heading, lacing and clouding when cold) are not present in the FAXE beers..... So, either it's over processed ( super micro-flitered) or (more likely) they use malt extract syrups...which is arguably a step up from corn dextrose syrups but this process precludes the need any meaningful conditioning ( lagering) period and permits high output at redusced costs.
Also..According to the food industry laws in Canada... malt extract brews can claim to be "all malt" even though the dextrins in the processed malt syrups are highly refined and akin in fermentable sugars to corn dextrose...and used in the same high gravity systems....also "hops" can be claimed on the ingerdient list even if one used hop extracts/oils..they can also claim to be "all natural" with this highly processed food chemisty in them: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2000/2 ... ice-e.html
....and this grinds on me because when somebody sells me an "all malt, natural lager" for $2.16 a can it better damn well be made with real barley grist and contain all the wonderful protien and maltose by-product tastes the natural/traditional brewing process imparts....but that's just me and my personal purchasing principles.....perhaps if FAXE ( and it's Canadian cousins like Steelback,Lakeport. Northern and Mol-Coor-Batt) was priced where extract-brewed, processed, high gravity beers should be ( about a buck a can or less) I wouldn't be so fastidious about it.
In the wider consumer perspective of a packaged beer costing over $1.90 ( where most domestic micros and all malt mash premiums run) a can, being "not bad" plays into corporate dishonesty in the brewing industry......at premium prices to deliver high volume, cheaply made extract beer which has the claim of simply "does not offend"....this just isn't good enough anymore...I wish Canadians became stronger consumers...more demading of quality for dollar in their choices and attitudes.
I will concur..FAXE amber does not overtly offend the palate. But we need to start calling a processed food product a processed food product and a beer a beer.
Rant off.
Aventinus rules!
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old faithful
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Fair enough Pootz and I just don't know how it is made, frankly. I was going by some comments of long ago by Michael Jackson, or what I recall Michael said about Faxe (I thought he wrote it was all-malt and not pasteurised). Isn't Heineken all-malt too, yet it also has a fairly standard taste. I wasn't relating the beer to price in my comments. If it costs more as you say than similar-tasting beers, many people would choose the lesser-priced one, no question. I'm just saying that having served this beer recently to a number of people who like beer but aren't connoisseurs, they preferred it to more craft-styled beers. The same with Rickard's Red. This kind of beer is not my preference but I find it interesting to see what the market at large likes.
Gary
Gary
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old faithful
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Just a follow up note, in the five editions of the Jackson pocket guide I consulted (which are all but the last one I think), he states Faxe is unpasteurised domestically, and also for export where canned. He does not say the beers are all-malt so my recollection in that regard was not right. He says in the New World Guide To Beer, about top-fermented Danish beers, that they use often large amounts of "caramel" and "brewing sugars". I don't doubt this may apply also to Danish lagers. The Amber in any case seems a type of ale (albeit restrained). Finally, Jackson notes the beers are sterile-filtered due to non-pasteurisation. Tight filtration can often remove some flavour. These facts may explain the palate of Faxe Amber.
By the way if it is true that malt-extract beer can be described under the regulations as all-malt, this seems a bit of a stretch. I have never had a beer made all or partly from extract that reminded me of an all-barley malt beer.
Gary
By the way if it is true that malt-extract beer can be described under the regulations as all-malt, this seems a bit of a stretch. I have never had a beer made all or partly from extract that reminded me of an all-barley malt beer.
Gary
Macro lagers are certainly comical. The big boys limit the flavour in order to appeal to a larger audience. But when the macro drinker is asked what they like most about Brand-X, they say it's the flavour! Yet when they do such tastings, few people identify their favourite brand/flavour?
There was a similar tasting write-up in The Michigan Beer Guide:
http://www.michiganbeerguide.com/news.a ... icleid=191
Korean War Veterans Sample American Beers at Sullivan’s Black Forest
Written By: Rex Halfpenny
Korean War Veterans Sample American Beers
at Sullivan’s Black Forest
The Korean War is sometime referred to as the “forgotten war” because it was sandwiched in between World War II and the Vietnam War. Few people realize that more American men died during the three years of the Korean War than in the ten years of America's Vietnam involvement. The numbers for Korea are stunning; Died 54,246, Wounded 103,284, M.I.A. 8,177.
I had the pleasure of addressing the Frankenmuth Rotary last February where I got to meet many of Frankenmuth's business leaders and community supporters. One individual was Harry Boesnecker who introduced himself and asked if I might be interested in speaking to the local Korean War Veterans. I told him I'd be delighted and suggested they all come to one of my talks at the Black Forest.
That meeting took place May 3rd. Harry suggested that I not do anything too exotic. I took it a step further and told him we would do a blind sampling of the top selling American Lager beers.
That evening about 60 members of the Frankenmuth-Saginaw Korean War Veterans Association Chapter 251 showed up as well as about 40 of our regular enthusiasts. We had amassed a collection of 12 beers for this audience. I wanted to make sure we had a lot of these beers to select from. In hindsight, it was too many.
We poured the beers blind, in a random order, identified only as a number. To make it a tiny bit easier we also supplied the names of all the beers we were serving listed in alphabetical order. Budweiser, Bud Light, Coors Golden, Coors Light, Michelob, Miller High Life, Miller Lite, Milwaukee’s Best, Old Style, Pabst Blue Ribbon, Stroh’s, and Sam Adams Boston Lager. I asked that they match the samples to the list of beers and make any comments they choose.
The meeting began with The Pledge of Allegiance, followed by a moment of silence for those fallen, M.I.A., and subsequently deceased. They conducted their short business session, everyone ate, and then we poured. Let me remind you, that's 13 beers to over 100 people.
The results were so mixed that I could not put together any meaningful data beyond some general observations.
The number one observation was that all the beers were the same. Whether they were oldtimer vets or younger enthusiasts, most folks could not determine what was what. One enthusiast told me he knew all the beers and he would easily identify them all. After the tasting he admitted he got none of them.
Many vets and some enthusiasts admitted that they were dedicated Bud or Miller Drinkers. I enjoyed reading these the most. One guy said his first beer was Budweiser and now all he drinks is Bud Light. He failed to ID a single beer correctly. A seasoned Bud drinker thought the PBR was Bud while a dedicated Miller Lite drinker named Bud as Miller Lite. One Bud Light drinker got one of the 12 correct because he named all 12 Bud Light. A Miller Lite drinker got Bud Light correct but identified Old Style as Miller Lite. The most dedicated Budweiser drinker was apparently the guy who wrote that his first beer was Budweiser in 1952 and to this day all he drinks is Budweiser. That was all he wrote, he did not even try to identify any of the beers, leaving them all blank. The best one was a Bud Light drinker who noted comments next to each sample. He identified the Miller High Life sample as the best, writing “Excellent/Good Body.” Next to the Bud Light sample his comment was simply “Ugh.” Interestingly, a one time Strohs drinker who now drinks only Labatt and Molson got only one right and it was Strohs!
We also had one ringer identified only as Brand X. It was Sam Adams Boston Lager, an all malt beer. The SA was considerably darker then the rest which would have been a give away. Several of the enthusiasts liked the SA pour the best, even if they did not correctly identify it. Interestingly, many identified the SA as any number of other mass-market products.
An extreme example was one where the taster correctly identified Bud Light and Miller High Life and missed everything else, including the Sam Adams which he identified as Miller Lite with the Miller Lite identified as Sam Adams.
My favorite comment was from a sheet that failed to get a single one correct. At the very end was written, “Amazing, thanks so much for the lesson and the info.”
By far most got none correct, some got one, two or three correct, and a few got 4-6 correct.
The most surprising quote from a veteran: “I like a good, dark beer-or stout. Bells Expedition Stout, McEwen’s Scotch Ale, Old Rasputen Russian Imperial Stout.” MBG
There was a similar tasting write-up in The Michigan Beer Guide:
http://www.michiganbeerguide.com/news.a ... icleid=191
Korean War Veterans Sample American Beers at Sullivan’s Black Forest
Written By: Rex Halfpenny
Korean War Veterans Sample American Beers
at Sullivan’s Black Forest
The Korean War is sometime referred to as the “forgotten war” because it was sandwiched in between World War II and the Vietnam War. Few people realize that more American men died during the three years of the Korean War than in the ten years of America's Vietnam involvement. The numbers for Korea are stunning; Died 54,246, Wounded 103,284, M.I.A. 8,177.
I had the pleasure of addressing the Frankenmuth Rotary last February where I got to meet many of Frankenmuth's business leaders and community supporters. One individual was Harry Boesnecker who introduced himself and asked if I might be interested in speaking to the local Korean War Veterans. I told him I'd be delighted and suggested they all come to one of my talks at the Black Forest.
That meeting took place May 3rd. Harry suggested that I not do anything too exotic. I took it a step further and told him we would do a blind sampling of the top selling American Lager beers.
That evening about 60 members of the Frankenmuth-Saginaw Korean War Veterans Association Chapter 251 showed up as well as about 40 of our regular enthusiasts. We had amassed a collection of 12 beers for this audience. I wanted to make sure we had a lot of these beers to select from. In hindsight, it was too many.
We poured the beers blind, in a random order, identified only as a number. To make it a tiny bit easier we also supplied the names of all the beers we were serving listed in alphabetical order. Budweiser, Bud Light, Coors Golden, Coors Light, Michelob, Miller High Life, Miller Lite, Milwaukee’s Best, Old Style, Pabst Blue Ribbon, Stroh’s, and Sam Adams Boston Lager. I asked that they match the samples to the list of beers and make any comments they choose.
The meeting began with The Pledge of Allegiance, followed by a moment of silence for those fallen, M.I.A., and subsequently deceased. They conducted their short business session, everyone ate, and then we poured. Let me remind you, that's 13 beers to over 100 people.
The results were so mixed that I could not put together any meaningful data beyond some general observations.
The number one observation was that all the beers were the same. Whether they were oldtimer vets or younger enthusiasts, most folks could not determine what was what. One enthusiast told me he knew all the beers and he would easily identify them all. After the tasting he admitted he got none of them.
Many vets and some enthusiasts admitted that they were dedicated Bud or Miller Drinkers. I enjoyed reading these the most. One guy said his first beer was Budweiser and now all he drinks is Bud Light. He failed to ID a single beer correctly. A seasoned Bud drinker thought the PBR was Bud while a dedicated Miller Lite drinker named Bud as Miller Lite. One Bud Light drinker got one of the 12 correct because he named all 12 Bud Light. A Miller Lite drinker got Bud Light correct but identified Old Style as Miller Lite. The most dedicated Budweiser drinker was apparently the guy who wrote that his first beer was Budweiser in 1952 and to this day all he drinks is Budweiser. That was all he wrote, he did not even try to identify any of the beers, leaving them all blank. The best one was a Bud Light drinker who noted comments next to each sample. He identified the Miller High Life sample as the best, writing “Excellent/Good Body.” Next to the Bud Light sample his comment was simply “Ugh.” Interestingly, a one time Strohs drinker who now drinks only Labatt and Molson got only one right and it was Strohs!
We also had one ringer identified only as Brand X. It was Sam Adams Boston Lager, an all malt beer. The SA was considerably darker then the rest which would have been a give away. Several of the enthusiasts liked the SA pour the best, even if they did not correctly identify it. Interestingly, many identified the SA as any number of other mass-market products.
An extreme example was one where the taster correctly identified Bud Light and Miller High Life and missed everything else, including the Sam Adams which he identified as Miller Lite with the Miller Lite identified as Sam Adams.
My favorite comment was from a sheet that failed to get a single one correct. At the very end was written, “Amazing, thanks so much for the lesson and the info.”
By far most got none correct, some got one, two or three correct, and a few got 4-6 correct.
The most surprising quote from a veteran: “I like a good, dark beer-or stout. Bells Expedition Stout, McEwen’s Scotch Ale, Old Rasputen Russian Imperial Stout.” MBG