Creemore Lager Today

[No More Euro-Lagers]

I grew up about 45 minutes from Creemore and drank it regularly.
Its brutal how many times that beer's taste has changed over the years. Its gone from a unique wonderful beer that represented everything right in the craft brewing world to just anothe run of the mill big brewery accounting entry.

I would not watse my money on it.

[pootz]

I grew up about 45 minutes from Creemore and drank it regularly.
Its brutal how many times that beer's taste has changed over the years. Its gone from a unique wonderful beer that represented everything right in the craft brewing world to just anothe run of the mill big brewery accounting entry.

I would not watse my money on it.

Thanks for the vindiacation on taste changes...but I don't think Creemore is ready to be trashed just yet...they still make a pretty tasty beer......even with Molson shoes on their feet.

Changes in the brew are inevitable..hop sources dry up...grain/malt crops vary.....things change ...not neccesarily for the worst....but for someone to tell me there have been NO changes in a certain beer....defies logic and reality......just sounds like so much Molson spin.

[No More Euro-Lagers]

I can remember starting to drink it a few years after they began (1988 or so?) in the early ninties.
Being in close proximity to what I would consider to be fresh beer I can count about 4 changes to the beer since that time. I am not alone and several brew masters have alluded to this as well.

They say no changes?
Just look at the bottles, and oh those lovely cans.

Case closed.

[GregClow]

They say no changes?
Just look at the bottles, and oh those lovely cans.

Case closed.

1) We've been talking about changes to the beer, not the packaging. They're two very different things.

2) Oh, it's in cans now. That means it must be crap!

[No More Euro-Lagers]

I think it represents the depature of the mind set that began a great brerwery that helped begin a movement away from big brewing.

Packaging? Ingredients? They are all costs in creating the product. Don't think for one second that a parent company won't look for ways to save money and create more market representation and market share.

Big business makes money, it doesn't make an acquistation to run it like a chairty.

And I hold firm with my opinion on cans.
If you are paying for a premium product do you not want it in a bottle?
Show me a stand out craft brew that is best known for its snazzy can!

"Hey Orval! we have this great can you guys should use that's easier for overseas transport in a container, it will save you money and in no way tarnish your product, and did we mention it is just as good as your bottles." The packaging for some is a great indicator. The minute I saw the demise of the 500ml i knew it was over.

God, next your going to tell me that they are going to sell wine in drinking boxes!

[Mississauga Matt]

I grew up about 45 minutes from Creemore and drank it regularly.
Its brutal how many times that beer's taste has changed over the years. Its gone from a unique wonderful beer that represented everything right in the craft brewing world to just anothe run of the mill big brewery accounting entry.

I would not watse my money on it.

Well this makes me feel better to hear others talk of a perceived change in flavour over the years.

I once wrote them a letter years ago at a time when it sure seemed to me to have changed. The brewmaster wrote back and assured me they were still following the original recipe.

Who knows? It might have just been me at that time, or there may really have been a change to some of the ingredients or the process.

[GregClow]

Packaging? Ingredients? They are all costs in creating the product. Don't think for one second that a parent company won't look for ways to save money and create more market representation and market share.

I don't disagree with you. I was just making the point that the discussion was centred on whether or not the recipe of Creemore has changed. Using the change in packaging as a primary proof that the quality of the beer has gone downhill is a bit of a spurious argument.

And I hold firm with my opinion on cans.
If you are paying for a premium product do you not want it in a bottle?

Depends on the product. When it comes to most lagers and some ales, I actually prefer cans to bottles. Especially when the bottled option is in green glass. I always grab the canned version of Urquell over the bottled one, and I've been really impressed with the canned version of London Pride.

Show me a stand out craft brew that is best known for its snazzy can!

Oskar Blues. Fantastic beers, all in cans.

"Hey Orval! we have this great can you guys should use that's easier for overseas transport in a container, it will save you money and in no way tarnish your product, and did we mention it is just as good as your bottles."

Oh, come on. When you're talking about the pros and cons of cans, comparing a bottle-conditioned Belgian Ale to a filtered lager doesn't make a lot of sense. Of course Orval (or Duvel, etc.) would likely suffer in cans vs. bottles. But I honestly don't think the same can be said of Creemore, or any other filtered lager style.

[No More Euro-Lagers]

My biggest point about the bottles is quite simple. It represents a turn for that company, one I wish never happened. Now maybe I shouldn't have reference a bottle condtioned ale, I was trying to make th epoint that the bottle is an important symbol. Bottles are just as much of the identity of a brewery as the product. I recognize the Orval bottle, The Delerium one, the Creemore bottle (rip), the Anchor bottle, even the Mill Street Bottle (another bottle going the way of the dodo) as part of the brewery itself.

I still hate cans and I get sick at looking at the rows and rows of euro piss lagers shelevd up at the lcbo like they were some great privlege. The can will always be the domain if the Lager Lout, guzzling Tennants Super right before he caves some poor geezer's face in.
Despite new technology cabs just are not good enough for beers that people have put their hearts and souls into their beer. And it would be a disgrace to think that they are.

What happened with Creemore is a tragedy (for us),
but the heart wants what the heart wants.
And in that case it wanted a big dollar buy out.

That being said, I do believe that Creemore was softened over the years. May be good or bad in some people's eyes, but where there is smoke.....

Now, who wants a Slee-paro? In a can!

[Jon Walker]

I have no such belief that a bottle equates to any greater quality than a can does. It is, after all, what's in the container not how it's packaged. Like Greg I have tried many great canned micros, the Fuller's London Pride tastes as good in the can as it did in the bottle (perhaps better). Besides, I don't drink from the container, I pretty much always pour into a glass so...I don't care about the packaging.

I think what you're trying to hit at is the sentimentality of having something you like not change the way it is presented. There's a familiarity and comfort knowing that the beer "looks" like the beer you've always loved...but would you rather they keep the original Creemore 500ml bottle and change the beer inside or keep the beer the same and put it in cans? If both were altered then that's a different story.

I heard the same arguements when some winemakers started using synthetic corks or (God forbid) screw caps. Now you can find many of the greatest wines packaged this way. Now there's a push to put wine in Tetra packs...do I love the idea? No. I love pulling a cork from a wine bottle rather than uncapping a tetra but...if the wine quality remains the same and the wine travels better with less spoilage and keeps longer in the container then I'm all for it. I don't really start to judge the quality of a wine until I decant it and then pour it into a glass so, again, who cares what package it comes in?

[No More Euro-Lagers]

No matter the industry the best of the best never compromise, it is what sets them apart and elevates the above the middle. Thinking of all the breweries I have visited over the years I am hard pressed to think of a brew master who would say a can is "good enough". When did we, as people who love and covet beer give these big breweries a pass when it comes to there product. Cans are not the best way to contianer beer and they never will be, they are a by- product of convience.

Every time some new innovation with packaging comes along its is for saving money, thats it and I do believe it reflects the quality of the product. Synthetic corks are cheaper, tetra Paks fit together bettter in transport. These innovations may not take away from the product, but they are symptomatic of a mind set that represents compromise.

This compromise is systemic of a mindset that alters ingredients, methodology, and delivery in the name of progress and the bottom line. Too long people had to endire the "good enough" attitude of big breweries, that's why there are so many craft brewers and people who almost cultish who buy them.

Sometimes people won't compromise, and sometimes they chose not to support companies thats represent compromise. That mindset is why this province has so many great small breweries.

Are not craft brews supposed to be the opposite to that bean counter mentatilty? No compromises and exacting attention to product, and public who is willing to pay for what they know is the best quality product made without compromise.

I refuse to give the likes of McCreemore a pass on this issue. They are no longer a beacon or an example for new micros and craft brewers to follow.

I would maybe suggest indulging in local fare instead of tinned imports that have rock and rolled their way across the atlantic.

"suppport you local brewery"

[Jon Walker]

Wow, you used the word "compromise" about seven or eight times there.

You're entitled to your opinion but I think, at the end of the day, it's clouded by the perception that only mass produced and inferior beers come in cans. There's an interesting article you should read here;
http://www.beercannews.com/CANS_Vs_BOTT ... ttles.html
It speaks to this idea that good brewers don't "compromise" by canning their products and that there is an obvious flavour distinction between bottled and canned beer. This just doesn't hold up when you consider the number of quality brewers who DO can excellent beers (Rodenbach, Oskar Blues, Fullers...etc). It just isn't compromise in my book.

[GregClow]

The can will always be the domain if the Lager Lout, guzzling Tennants Super right before he caves some poor geezer's face in.

This quote alone makes it clear that there's no point in me trying to continue this discussion. You've obviously got a hate-on for cans that no amount of evidence to the contrary is going to change. Time for me to move along...

[lagerale]

Hmmm... there must have been some pretty upset people back in the day when they started bottling beer as well, but I think the concept caught on pretty well.

Or perhaps brewers should take a step back in time and not package beer in individual containers at all? Wouldn't it be something if we all had to line up with a growler at our local brewery or goodness forbid enjoy a fresh pint at the pub!

I think trends in packaging will continue to evolve and as long I'm drinking a quality product, I'll be happy.

[Rob Creighton]

I'm a fan of the growler but I think thats because I'm more of a session drinker with friends rather than the occassional pint at home type.

Packaging innovation is constant. The can across North America runs between 60-70% of every market and we will evolve to that here as well despite the Labatt/Molson created environmental tax.

The discount, beer swiller image the can has is historical but the only reason that micro's didn't start with cans was the high capital cost of filling equipment and minimum can run size. This has now been eliminated and you will start to see a number of micro's swinging to cans.

Both Neustadt and Wellington are about to switch (Neustadt has already commited to the equipment and cans) and I know others are looking. The demise of the industry standard bottle (ISB) is on the horizon and interestingly enough, it is the LCBO that is driving the bus on this. They are asking us for single serve containers (500ml+) and they specify cans in their requests.

Being in a six pack in the ISB significantly reduces your chance of getting a beer into the LCBO now. The real kicker on this movement will be the increase in recycling effort with wine and liquor bottles through the beer store. I think this will accelerate the elimination of the ISB and you will see a much larger commitment to the valuable aluminum can. Time will tell.

I think Creemore did a great job decorating their can and you'll see a number good looking packages soon. Some of us will go with Euro bottles to raise the premium image of our beers and I hope not to see a twist off ever again.

[Belgian]

I just want to add that I LIKE Creemore, it's really good in cans.

Hockley Dark is a 'small' beer but a very fine one. In cans. It's really nice if you want a fresh, crisp dark session ale with balance and character.

Kostritzer Schwartzbier also comes to mind as a world-class canned product. And I'll never buy Urquell in green glass!