What constitutes a "great" pub-what do we look for

Gedge · Post by **Gedge** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:23 pm

For me Dieu du Ciel combines great beer with a trad pub atmosphere.

clasher · Post by **clasher** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:07 am

Gedge wrote:For me Dieu du Ciel combines great beer with a trad pub atmosphere.

This reminds me, more Ontario pubs need to sell smoked almonds.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:20 pm

Thoughtful selection of beers (no matter the quantity, good choices that demonstrate an interest in what is being sold. Go Ralph at Volo.)

Put the customer's experience first. Run clean the taps and meet requests!

Friendly pricing on some things & also a few exotic surprises one can splurge on. Volo and BeerBistro.

Some culinary literacy. There can be very few choices to eat so long as they are all real, substantiating food. Smokeless does simple menu well with awesome bread, beef stew and steamed mussels. One feels in hearty spirits & well disposed to the Master of the ale house.

No bad old carpet/greasy/dirty smell. We are not a farm animal at a watering trough.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:15 pm

no, they gather at Fort York...

runes · Post by **runes** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:17 am

1) good beer selection (micros, brews, rare bottles etc)
2) good music selection, but not super loud
3) good munchies/food/apps
4) no tvs/sports junk on the walls

Blankboy · Post by **Blankboy** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:24 pm

Torontoblue wrote:So, Blankboy, what do YOU consider to be your best pub, seeing as people have put forward what they say is theirs and you shoot every suggestion down.

Settle down tiger, you sound hostile. I didn't shoot anyone down, I was just giving an opinion and not in anyway shape or form telling them that theirs is wrong. I friggin' love Volo and The Victory and I go there all the time, I just don't consider them Pubs, so what?

As for your question, unfortunately there isn't one of what I call a true Pub in Toronto that meets all the requirements of what I'd call a great Pub. That said, here are a few that I dig anyways: The Duke of Gloucester on Yonge St. mainly for the atmosphere (thankfully they are finally starting to carry some Ontario micros), The Duke of Kent at Yonge & Eglinton because they have Wellington on Cask and Fullers on tap which is not great but better then most. I enjoy going to Whelan's Gate Irish Pub on Bloor from time to time, mainly due to having a good time there. Two more Irish pubs I enjoy are Dora Keogh on Danforth (great atmosphere and Fullers on hand-pump) and McVeigh's at Church and Richmond (great pub but alas not great beer). So there you have it, some pubs I like (and there are more) that all have some things I look for in a great pub, just none of them have everything I look for.

Oh, and go to the home of the "pub", the UK and a large majority now resemble the Victory Cafe, Volo, C'est What, Beerbistro. The good old fashioned beer & spirits only pub is dying in the UK. Most now push their food before the beer, as there's more money to be made that way.

Baloney. I was just there for 12 days and there isn't a town or city in England that doesn't have a pub or pubs that meet all my requirements. I was absolutely floored by how many great pubs there were! We would go to a small village, like Castleton, and there were at least 6 pubs dating back to the 17th century with atmosphere coming out the wazoo and at least 4 to 6 quality cask ales and many of them had very limited food menus. Just pick up the CAMRA Great Pub Guide and look how thick that book is, and it's far from complete, I went to many great establishments that weren't even in the book.[/quote]

Gedge · Post by **Gedge** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:27 pm

Not many 17th century pubs in this country!

Used to go to the D.O.G. quite a bit before I realised there were places like Volo down the block. D.O.G. needs to clean their taps/lines and change the damn tunes in the jukebox!

Blankboy · Post by **Blankboy** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:39 pm

Gedge wrote:Not many 17th century pubs in this country!

No, really?!

Used to go to the D.O.G. quite a bit before I realised there were places like Volo down the block. D.O.G. needs to clean their taps/lines and change the damn tunes in the jukebox!

Same for me, if I'm in that area (hell, even if I'm not) then it's Volo for me. But every now and then I might want to go to the Duke so it makes me happy that they now have some Ontario micros on tap. It's a small step but still...

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:23 pm

I'm pretty sure the cask Wellington ales no longer exist at the Duke of Kent.

Blankboy · Post by **Blankboy** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:30 pm

midlife crisis wrote:I'm pretty sure the cask Wellington ales no longer exist at the Duke of Kent.

That's a shame.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:01 pm

Blankboy wrote: I was absolutely floored by how many great pubs there were! We would go to a small village, like Castleton, and there were at least 6 pubs dating back to the 17th century with atmosphere coming out the wazoo and at least 4 to 6 quality cask ales and many of them had very limited food menus.

Atmosphere - easy to cop in Europe, very hard to create in Toronto.

I like limited food menus if the food doesn't suck like rancid roadkill. Germany beer grub is very simple good and satisfying (and it doesn't look at all like microwave pizza, chicken fingers, nachos with mystery goo... all the horrid swill Canadians love to munch down yes yes yes.)

Blankboy you have given me the first reason to ever want to see England. Those pubs sound like hallowed places of pure living enjoyment.

Blankboy · Post by **Blankboy** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:11 pm

Belgian wrote:Blankboy you have given me the first reason to ever want to see England. Those pubs sound like hallowed places of pure living enjoyment.

They are plentiful and awesome!

Torontoblue · Post by **Torontoblue** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:46 am

Blankboy wrote:
Belgian wrote:Blankboy you have given me the first reason to ever want to see England. Those pubs sound like hallowed places of pure living enjoyment.
They are plentiful and awesome!

There are many fantastic pubs in the UK (but there are a helluva lot more cr*p pubs too), and since the age of 16 I've tried numerous excellent pubs, but they are dwindling fast and still being replaced with keg havens and Pubco offerings. It is incredibly difficult starting a pub with all your criteria and the ones that are up and running are also very hard to maintain. My sister is due to be managing such an establishment very soon; 10 cask ales, no music, no TV, no smoking, good pub food, friendly & knowledgeable staff, but it's hard work and if it wasn't for the locals it wouldn't last long.

I wasn't meaning to come across as hostile, I just wanted your opinion on your pub. And to cite the D.O.G as a great place to go, man that is one of the worst places to go for anything. It's dark, nasty, dirty and it stinks. I would be ashamed to take anybody there. I know they have possibly the best jukebox in Toronto, but come on...........! I notice you go for all the faux Irish/English pubs and they all get it wrong apart from Dora's. No pub I've been to in the UK ever looks like a Duke.... pub and I wouldn't say any of them here serve great beer. The Duke range of pubs mirrors what the Pubco's did in the late 80's early 90's in the UK with all those awful false Irish bars, and we are still paying the price now!!

As a member of CAMRA the GBG is complete and is updated every month. Those pubs you went in to aren't in the book at the moment for a good reason. The GBG is the absolute bible for pubs in the UK and can be trusted.

Blankboy · Post by **Blankboy** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:23 am

Torontoblue wrote:There are many fantastic pubs in the UK (but there are a helluva lot more cr*p pubs too), and since the age of 16 I've tried numerous excellent pubs, but they are dwindling fast and still being replaced with keg havens and Pubco offerings.

Well that's all relative isn't it? Maybe there's less great pubs in the UK then there used to be (and I wouldn't know) but for someone coming from Toronto it's a relative goldmine of great Pubs! My homebase in England was Harrogate, not a very big place at all, population (according to www.harrogate.gov.uk) is 151,339 and it had more great pubs then Toronto and Ottawa combined.

And to cite the D.O.G as a great place to go, man that is one of the worst places to go for anything. It's dark, nasty, dirty and it stinks. I would be ashamed to take anybody there. I know they have possibly the best jukebox in Toronto, but come on...........!

I never cited the D.O.G. as a great place to go, hell I was the one that said as far as I was concerned there weren't any great pubs to go to. I just named pubs that I didn't mind going to. And just so you know, I've taken many tourists to the D.O.G. in the past and they love the "atmosphere" of the place. Again, it's all a matter of preference.

I notice you go for all the faux Irish/English pubs and they all get it wrong apart from Dora's. No pub I've been to in the UK ever looks like a Duke.... pub and I wouldn't say any of them here serve great beer. The Duke range of pubs mirrors what the Pubco's did in the late 80's early 90's in the UK with all those awful false Irish bars, and we are still paying the price now!!

First of all, if all the pubs I named are "faux" then please tell me of the "real" pubs here in Toronto? And I'm sorry, hate to say it again, but Volo's not a pub. Also, the D.O.G. may have the name "Duke" in it but it's not part of the "Duke" chain of pubs.
(Also: "The Duke of Gloucester is one of Toronto's more authentic British pubs and is known to attract many ex-pats. In fact, the bar was actually built in Britain and shipped over here. The Duke has the traditional red couches, deep burgundy wallpaper and patterned tin ceiling of the best British pubs.")

As a member of CAMRA the GBG is complete and is updated every month. Those pubs you went in to aren't in the book at the moment for a good reason. The GBG is the absolute bible for pubs in the UK and can be trusted.

And what is that "good reason" that you mention? Couldn't it be that they simply don't have the resources to include all of them? I went to many towns or villages in North Yorkshire that were either not even mentioned in the book or had very little info. I'm sorry but just because it's not included in your "bible" (helpful as it can be) doens't mean it's not a good pub.[/quote]

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:09 pm

Maybe the ultimate public house / gasthaus experience is increasingly becoming a thing that is "off the known and well-beaten path" - exactly because the established areas are the easy targets of takeover by Pubco in the UK, the Firkin franchise here etc.

Then perhaps the real thing becomes increasingly 'underground' and word-of-mouth because people who do go there and support it value it as a non-corporate experience which puts authenticity first.

If Volo is not a Pub or Gasthaus it is certainly a 'Caffé' in the spirit of living culture & appreciating the local people it is rooted in. Here we have not some effing bean-counter in Montreal making deals with InBev, it is just Ralph deciding what goes on the taps and what exotic bottles he wants to import.

(Caffé is an Italian concept - far from a pub, traditionally just a relaxed place where one can hang out, get a small bite, buy a paper, smokes or stationery, get a small bite to eat, have some beer or wine - basically a very nice all-purpose hangout at all hours. Who can say what is formally correct for a Caffé in Toronto but Ralph's place is uniquely relaxed and inviting for most Caffé purposes - after 4pm of course!)