LCBO Staff Expertise

[Bytowner]

Not meant as an LCBO bashing thread, I'm just curious about something.

I often see LCBO staff giving people advice, sometimes it seems pretty informed, on what kind of wine they should buy. Now I would assume these staff are either selected due to their knowledge or they are given some type of courses, or maybe just given a primer on all products that come in.

Now over to the beer section. In both my regular stores, the "beer guy" knows dick all about beer, I know I'm not the only one who gets looked at like an idiot whenever I mention anything other than "Corona" or "Keith's". Why such a difference in staff quality? To the LCBO employee(s) that post here, is any kind of beer knowledge required or taught to people that work in that section of the store?

This isn't meant to be sarcastic or mean, I'm just really frustrated with trying to track down products and being snubbed. Short of hiring me, how can we get things improved? Is there any customer service line/e-mail address that the LCBO actually pays attention to?

[esprit]

Most of the kjowledgeable people in LCBO stores are VINTAGES Product Consultants who are trained. At one time, when VINTAGES ran the specialty/seasonal beer program, there were a number of consultants who really cared about and knew about beer but that knowledge is pretty much wasted now. There is the odd LCBO employeed who knows and cares about beer (Bill at Queen's Quay for instance) but generally the lack of knowledge is pretty bad. Could you imagine a sporting goods store hiring someone who knew nothing about sporting goods? Sometimes it seems the only requirement is being able to read, lift a case and put bottles on the shelves...LCBO staff is well paid and it would be obligatory for them to take courses in wines, spirits and beers so that they can speak intelligently.

[JesseM]

Len (Steelbackguy) explained to me recently how the training goes. The beer part is apparently pathetic compared to the wine and spirit parts. They explain roughly the differences between some umbrella styles, and that's about it.

I always tend to cringe when I can't help but over-hear an LCBO employee attempting to explain any beer product that isn't Molson or Bud. They have a vague understanding of what an ale is/what a lager is, but beyond that they know absolutely nothing most of the time, other than maybe it selling well or not. Just the other day some lady was trying to pick out a couple interesting beers, and she obviously had no clue what she was looking at, and an employee suggested Wells Burning Gold, because 'it's flying off the shelves'. They also spent a few minutes trying to figure out what country it was from . The flag of England is RIGHT THERE on the label, sheesh.

[Jon Walker]

My understanding is that there are product knowledge courses available for LCBO employees. Some of them are requirements if they plan to climb the ladder to management. Many employees are part timers, seasonal or really have no ambition to do much other than cash or stock. So MANY staff have a rudimentary knowledge at best.

I strongly encourage people to open up a dialogue with staff at their local stores. You'll eventually find someone who knows what they're talking about and those are the folks I try to get to know.

[SteelbackGuy]

Not meant as an LCBO bashing thread, I'm just curious about something.

I often see LCBO staff giving people advice, sometimes it seems pretty informed, on what kind of wine they should buy. Now I would assume these staff are either selected due to their knowledge or they are given some type of courses, or maybe just given a primer on all products that come in.

Now over to the beer section. In both my regular stores, the "beer guy" knows dick all about beer, I know I'm not the only one who gets looked at like an idiot whenever I mention anything other than "Corona" or "Keith's". Why such a difference in staff quality? To the LCBO employee(s) that post here, is any kind of beer knowledge required or taught to people that work in that section of the store?

This isn't meant to be sarcastic or mean, I'm just really frustrated with trying to track down products and being snubbed. Short of hiring me, how can we get things improved? Is there any customer service line/e-mail address that the LCBO actually pays attention to?

I can answer all of these questions for you.


1)"I often see LCBO staff giving people advice, sometimes it seems pretty informed, on what kind of wine they should buy. Now I would assume these staff are either selected due to their knowledge or they are given some type of courses, or maybe just given a primer on all products that come in."



Each staff member, upon being hired, has to complete a series of tests within a year and a half of their hire. This is for every employee. There are product knowledge levels 1-3, and a service knowledge test as well.
The product knowledge courses are actually intense, and you do learn a lot of stuff, but the focus is on wine, spirits, and then of course beer comes in a distant third. The problem with the tests is that once you write these and pass them, there is nothing else you have to do, so most employees forget stuff because they have had no training in years. In most cases, there are one or two people who really enjoy wine/spirits/beer in a store, and they are usually the knowledgeable ones, and therefore the staff send customers to that person. As far as what about beer is covered in the books, it basically covers the difference between lagers, ales, stouts, trappist beers, fruit beers, and in the third book, it even talks about lambics. But these aren't things that a lot of people are askingh about, and therefore, staff forget quickly, and will send beer questions to the "beer guy", who usually doesnt actually know anything about beer, but is rather someone who enjoys working heavy stock, and is selected as "beer guy", but I will talk further on this in a bit.



2)"Now over to the beer section. In both my regular stores, the "beer guy" knows dick all about beer, I know I'm not the only one who gets looked at like an idiot whenever I mention anything other than "Corona" or "Keith's". Why such a difference in staff quality? To the LCBO employee(s) that post here, is any kind of beer knowledge required or taught to people that work in that section of the store?"



Ok, about the infamous "beer guy". The beer guy is often someone who enjoys doing boat loads of stock, and someone who doesn't mind constantly filling the beer and cooler fridges. This is usually appointed by the manager, and it is usually a full time employee. The one caveat here is that the "beer guy" doesnt have to know annything about beer at all. They simply take care of ordering, adhearing to the planogram, etc. There is absolutely no knowledge needed to be the beer person, it is merely someone who loves to slug stock in the beer areas.
The only advantage the beer person might have is that since they order the beer, they might know if a product is coming, or if it is not, and usually they are in charge of ordering the release beers. But, having said that, they receive large books of beers all the time, and are always being bombarded with brands in all types of formats, so they cant remember every brand, whats coming out, whats delisted, etc.
Some stores are on the seasonal beer release programs, some are not. It is not mandatotry to sell these skus, so that is why you will sometimes go to a store, and there are no release beers there.

At my store, the beer guy orders and stocks, but all questions are sent to me, and everyone knows (even most of the regular customers) that talking to me is the way to get things done regarding beer


3)"This isn't meant to be sarcastic or mean, I'm just really frustrated with trying to track down products and being snubbed. Short of hiring me, how can we get things improved? Is there any customer service line/e-mail address that the LCBO actually pays attention to?"

Understood. But I want you to keep this in mind. We have a different beer culture here in Ontario, than compared to a lot of places.... Its not a good thing, but I want you to consider that a lot of these staff members have been around 10-30 years. Even 10 years ago, craft beer wasn't heard of really at the LCBO. It is a fairly new movement, and the LCBO is starting to hear the message, but it will take longer. Maybe at that point, beer will become more of an issue with regards to training.
Ill be honest, if you come in asking some old timer for beer that they havent heard of, they might react weird. But just look at older people you know, like maybe your parents. I know my dad loves coors light (but I haven him drinking good stuff now), but until I told him about craft beer, he wouldnt have known anything.

I suggest you spread the word to friends and family. Thats what I do. They get the message...usually.


As far as calling the LCBO, Id try to get a hold of the district manager in your area (I can get you that if you wish) and call them directly, and ask them why craft beer is not important to the LCBO in that area.


I hope this all helps.

Len

[bujubanton]

The beer guy isn't required to know anything about beer...

-well that kind of sums up the LCBO....

[The_Jester]

...Each staff member, upon being hired, has to complete a series of tests within a year and a half of their hire. This is for every employee. There are product knowledge levels 1-3, and a service knowledge test as well....

These books and videos are actually available for sale to the public. They're right beside the checkout at my local.

[kormt]

A couple of months back I was throwing a tasting party and picked up a variety of the new seasonals at the Cooper St LCBO. As I was checking out the clerk said he was about to run a beer tasting through the store and wanted to know the difference between ales and lagers, as he wasn't aware what the difference was himself. Shouldn't the LCBO be choosing employees to run these events who are awrae of the products instead of kicking someone into the deep end of the pool?

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

Shouldn't the LCBO be choosing employees to run these events who are awrae of the products instead of kicking someone into the deep end of the pool?

Government funded monopolies rarely have to emphasize any form of competence when it comes to their employees.

[Bobbyok]

Shouldn't the LCBO be choosing employees to run these events who are awrae of the products instead of kicking someone into the deep end of the pool?

Government run monopolies rarely have to emphasize any form of competence when it comes to their employees.

Fixed. Government funded monopolies at least have to have sufficient competence to get their funding continued - and if it's just government funded, they can get away without a union. Government run monopolies on the other hand, not so much.

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

Shouldn't the LCBO be choosing employees to run these events who are awrae of the products instead of kicking someone into the deep end of the pool?

Government run monopolies rarely have to emphasize any form of competence when it comes to their employees.

Fixed. Government funded monopolies at least have to have sufficient competence to get their funding continued - and if it's just government funded, they can get away without a union. Government run monopolies on the other hand, not so much.

Haha, cheers!

[Belgian]

I don't mind if the LCBO staff now rely on the consumer knowing the products better than they do, so long as they respect the 'customer knows best' arrangement & honor it accordingly.

But where the staff sometimes go seriously wrong is when they presume to know what they don't know, and make seriously erroneous statements which may even fly in the face of what the well-informed customer has just told them, and contradict widely-known published facts.

(I won't go into familiar examples of this.)

This presumption (hubris?) is disrespectful and ignorant to the customer - at best! At worst, it is a serious disservice to products that are being misrepresented, or even not represented at all, as in cases of 'there are no seasonals' or 'I don't think the LCBO even sells that' etc...

So while I do settle for mediocre staff product knowledge, and needing to "know my own way" around beer, I do not accept misleading or wrong statements from these Crown-paid employees. Lucky for them they never need admit to being wrong (can you say "Union"?)