The Beer Store: Exposed as the crooks that they are!

Pub Style · Post by **Pub Style** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:29 pm

Has anyone received responses from the Premier's office yet? I haven't yet.

icemachine · Post by **icemachine** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:44 pm

dutchcanuck · Post by **dutchcanuck** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:47 pm

Although I wrote a scathing e-mail I'm not naive enough to believe that some schmuck from his PR office would bother writing back. I just want to inform Dalton that not everyone believes that the system "isn't broke" and that it does need fixing.
For example, Southern Tier IPA, still not in the Niagara region. I never did see the Anchor Steam or Rogue Dead Guy Ale around here. I'm sorry, that is not a good system.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:07 pm

dutchcanuck wrote:
For example, Southern Tier IPA, still not in the Niagara region. I never did see the Anchor Steam or Rogue Dead Guy Ale around here. I'm sorry, that is not a good system.

That's just screwed-up, lazy retail management. (No offense to Steelbackguy.)

It's really, really WRONG that people from Niagara should have to drive a few hundred km to get a seasonal LCBO beer. If the low selection / provincial coverage model doesn't work, then we need to allow private stores as well to compensate for that defective model.

dutchcanuck · Post by **dutchcanuck** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:56 am

As I've mentioned previously I've given up on the LCBO and TBS. Its just easier to drive over to Buffalo, like I did earlier this week, and grab a sixer of Victory's Golden Monkey and Green Flash West Coast IPA. I even took the opportunity to bring a friend with me and we headed to Cole's for an excellent lunch and beer sampling session. Sure I get some weird looks from the customs officials when I state that the purpose of my visit was lunch, but whatever. I usually tank up on gas while I'm over there and that covers my travel expenses since I have never been asked to pay duty on a six pack or two.
So who knows? Maybe the LCBO takes people like me into consideration when they decide who does and who doesn't get the seasonal releases; in any case its still a piss poor way to run a business.
If anyone is ever looking to head over to Coles/Premier and wants the company of a fellow bar towler, just gimme a shout

Cheers,
Dutch Canuck

shintriad · Post by **shintriad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:13 pm

Pub Style wrote:Has anyone received responses from the Premier's office yet? I haven't yet.

I got a pretty stock response. I posted it but it seems to have disappeared. Either I screwed something up or Big Brother is watching.

lagerale · Post by **lagerale** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:34 pm

Pub Style wrote:Has anyone received responses from the Premier's office yet? I haven't yet.

An e-mail from the Premier of Ontario:

Thanks for your online message regarding the sale of beer in Ontario. I
appreciate the time you have taken to forward your views.
My colleagues and I feel strongly about preserving the social
responsibility standards in the sale of alcohol. Ontario consumers have
a variety of retail options available to them for the purchase of
alcoholic beverages - these include the LCBO, The Beer Store, wine
retail stores and direct purchase from wineries. We believe that the
current sales system serves the public interest best because it
safeguards social responsibility in the sale of alcohol, provides
convenience and competitive prices, promotes Ontario products, and
encourages responsible reuse and recycling.

Thanks again for contacting me. Your input on any issue of provincial
concern is always welcome.

JesseM · Post by **JesseM** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:53 pm

"Scoail responsibility". Yes, because as we ALL know and can attest to through personal experience, underage drinking is completely none existent in the province of Ontario. Thank you Dalton for continuing this aspect of our proud heritage!

Tapsucker · Post by **Tapsucker** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:50 pm

"We believe that the current sales system serves the public interest best because it safeguards social responsibility in the sale of alcohol, provides
convenience and competitive prices, promotes Ontario products, and
encourages responsible reuse and recycling. "

I sure wish he would explain how the system is doing any of those things. It appears to be doing just the opposite:

1. Social responsibility - promoting alcohol for profit, undermining local producers and jobs in favour of importers.

2. Convenience and competitive prices - do I really need to go on about this?

3. Promotes Ontario products - we know how bad the record on this is.

4. Encourages responsible reuse and recycling - The truth is that the BS storied fame on recycling is entirely supported by consumer behaviour. If we didn't return the empties there is nothing they are doing to make it happen. There are plenty of more effective collection systems that would be even more consumer friendly and cover more types of containers. Look at some of the jurisdictions in Europe where EVERY container sold has to have a deposit and an identifying barcode. Automated machines can be found in stores, gas stations all over the place that you drop your container in, it reads the bar code, sorts and returns your deposit. The machines are privately run like ATMs, available like ATMs and probably have less breakdowns than some overpaid loser at the BS who cannot figure out one bottle from another.

Ale's What Cures Ya · Post by **Ale's What Cures Ya** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:48 pm

lagerale wrote:
Pub Style wrote:Has anyone received responses from the Premier's office yet? I haven't yet.
An e-mail from the Premier of Ontario:

Thanks for your online message regarding the sale of beer in Ontario. I
appreciate the time you have taken to forward your views.
My colleagues and I feel strongly about preserving the social
responsibility standards in the sale of alcohol. Ontario consumers have
a variety of retail options available to them for the purchase of
alcoholic beverages - these include the LCBO, The Beer Store, wine
retail stores and direct purchase from wineries. We believe that the
current sales system serves the public interest best because it
safeguards social responsibility in the sale of alcohol, provides
convenience and competitive prices, promotes Ontario products, and
encourages responsible reuse and recycling.

Thanks again for contacting me. Your input on any issue of provincial
concern is always welcome.

How typical. I received the exact same email.

Democracy doesn't work.

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:40 pm

JesseM wrote:"Scoail responsibility". Yes, because as we ALL know and can attest to through personal experience, underage drinking is completely none existent in the province of Ontario. Thank you Dalton for continuing this aspect of our proud heritage!

With all due respect Jesse, (and as much as I know the "social responsibility" line is a crock of shit), I've never seen or heard of anyone saying that underage drinking is definition of social responsibility.

It is common knowledge, and it makes sense that, no matter what sort of alcohol retail sales outlets one has access to, underage people are going to get their hands on the stuff. They will find a way, as most of us probably did, to get alcohol. It will happen with any system.

The LCBO, and in this case, the letter from the Premier, is simply citing social responsibility. They do not identify what that is exactly, but the underage drinking thing is a horse that has long been beaten and killed off.

JesseM · Post by **JesseM** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:47 pm

SteelbackGuy wrote:
JesseM wrote:"Scoail responsibility". Yes, because as we ALL know and can attest to through personal experience, underage drinking is completely none existent in the province of Ontario. Thank you Dalton for continuing this aspect of our proud heritage!

With all due respect Jesse, (and as much as I know the "social responsibility" line is a crock of shit), I've never seen or heard of anyone saying that underage drinking is definition of social responsibility.

It is common knowledge, and it makes sense that, no matter what sort of alcohol retail sales outlets one has access to, underage people are going to get their hands on the stuff. They will find a way, as most of us probably did, to get alcohol. It will happen with any system.

The LCBO, and in this case, the letter from the Premier, is simply citing social responsibility. They do not identify what that is exactly, but the underage drinking thing is a horse that has long been beaten and killed off.

Actually, it's quite ongoing, as demonstrated by this video I took of Dalton at last year's Oktoberfest:

But in all seriousness, yeah I know the 'social responsibility' thing is typically now just an ambigious phrase they throw around that makes them sound really good. I usually just interpret the line as reference to their supposed belief that they can and do stop underage drinking. But I know what you mean.

Ale's What Cures Ya · Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:51 pm

I wonder how many letters/calls it would take to the premier's office before you got an actual response?

Probably more than any of us can afford. Unless any of you are secret multi-billionaires that dumped a ton of money into Dalty's campaign. I'm sure Len pitched in a few bucks.

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:06 pm

That video of the man beating the horse is funny, but it also occurs in the LCBO training video under the social responsibility section. Funny I think!

I think the social responsibility thing comes in different ways, but some I can vouch for that I see at the store level everyday are:

Underage people trying to buy alcohol- This happens every day. Each time I work, I get a fake ID, or some jackass kid who is 17 with their older sibling's ID. It's not a big deal, I just don't sell to them. But I don't cause a rukus, or tell our officer on duty about it.

People who are intoxicated- Man, I get a lot of these. Especially at the store I work at, which is the city's worst store for belligerent customers and drunken fools. Most of these people come in so trashed that they can't walk, and it is an easy spot. But sometimes I will sell someone a bottle of vodka in the morning, and I will see them drive in later in the night for another bottle. They appear to be fine, but upon talking to them, their breath reeks, and you can see their bloodshot eyes, and they also miss hitting the numbers on the debit pad when inputting their pin.

There are lots of other examples, and I'm not saying that the LCBO is the only employer who would enforce the rules like they do, but from what I can see, things are ok in that respect.

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:12 pm

DragonOfBlood wrote:I wonder how many letters/calls it would take to the premier's office before you got an actual response?

Probably more than any of us can afford. Unless any of you are secret multi-billionaires that dumped a ton of money into Dalty's campaign. I'm sure Len pitched in a few bucks.

I did actually.

I have worked for the liberal party since I was 18. Not just for the party, but for various politicians that have ran under their platform. I do so to this very day, and have no qualms about it.