LCBO Spring 2009 Release

[tuqueboy]

How exactly does the LCBO have jurisdiction to 'fine' a foreign brewery? I would imagine such a fine would likely be laughed off as the pathetic joke it is.

Actually, things like that are written into the contract with the brewery.

[mjohnston]

skunk989, very well put. Another suggestion I'd throw in is for the Vintages dept. to carry beer at a few select stores. They seem to handle it for wines, they'd probably be fairly well set up to handle a few specialty beers. Ultimately, I completely agree that giving select stores some autonomy is a much better solution. They don't have to do it for all stores - just a few in larger centers. One or two in Toronto, one in the KW area, London, Ottawa, etc.

"A" the LCBO doesn't have jurisdiction, but they do have contracts which are likely to spell out these sorts of fine schedules. From esprit's posts, it also sounds as if the LCBO might pass these fines along through the agent. Not sure how it works exactly, but it'll be based on contract, not legislation.

[GregClow]

Another suggestion I'd throw in is for the Vintages dept. to carry beer at a few select stores. They seem to handle it for wines, they'd probably be fairly well set up to handle a few specialty beers.

Vintages used to bring in specialty beers on a semi-regular basis, but they stopped doing so in 2001.

[markaberrant]

If it makes you feel any better, here are the SLGA spring releases:

Erdinger Weissbier
Marstons Pedigree

On the plus side, I've seen the following new taps around Regina: Brooklyn Pilsner, Wild Rose Brown, Mill St Tankhouse.

[Belgian]

Back to (briefly) the LCBO rejecting "non-standard" cartons... dare we ask 'why?'

Can the reason be hyper-protective union workers are averse to handle non-standard cartons unloading the pallets? That seems an insanely retarded reason for keeping our favorite products away on tiny seasonal orders.

II have nothing against the union or LCBO workers, but in such event they or their rule-makers "don't like" unloading non-standard cartons I just don't care. They should shut up and do it

These cartons are accepted universally elsewhere. The LCBO are on a power trip.

[SteelbackGuy]

re: the LCBO rejecting "non-standard" cartons... dare we ask 'why?'

Can the reason be hyper-protective union workers are averse to handle non-standard cartons unloading the pallets? That seems a really retarded reason for keeping our favorite products away.

II have nothing against union or LCBO workers, but in such event they or their rule-makers "don't like" unloading non-standard cartons I just don't care. They should shut up and do it

These cartons are accepted universally elsewhere. The LCBO are clearly on a power trip.

I don't think this is a union issue.

All the union requires is that a particular case not be heavier than 50lbs. And that is widely accepted elsewhere....like in grocery stores, warehouses, etc.
We unpack thousands of different style boxes. 12 bottle boxes, 6 bottle boxes, boxes that are packed within other boxes, boxes that have plastic wrapped 12 packs inside of them. Orval came in just a regular style case.

This is a policy that is being strictly enforced by the folks at head office, and I'd like to know why.

[Belgian]

This is a policy that is being strictly enforced by the folks at head office, and I'd like to know why.

Can we find out somehow?

[Roland + Russell]

We have seen similar penalties as Esprit has for non-compliant packaging which is part of the contract - mind you, there are sometimes omissions, honest mistakes and genuine misunderstanding. Still, it is never fun to deal with these charges.

Why do they insist on these packaging standards? One possible reason is that the boxes with cardboard inserts/dividers are providing better protection for bottled liquid. Not only that the bottles have less chance of being smashed against each other, the contest is much safer if one or two of the bottles are broken - the rest stay more or less in place instead rolling all over the box. Also, in partitioned boxes, the broken glass particles tend to stay in one area instead of spreading everywhere.

So, from a micro brewer to a consolidation point, then driven to ship... Even if it all makes it nicely and safely to Canada, that's just one part of its journey.
Given the size of our province, it is somewhat safe to say the product travels farther than in many other countries. Not only that your favourite beer must be distributed to your local store (Toronto, Barry's Bay, Sault St. Marie, Kapuskasing), even after it reaches its destination it sometimes gets transferred to another store.
This is speculation on our part, but it is possible that the LCBO looked at the ratio of broken bottles in partition boxes vs. non-partitioned and decided to implement a few changes.
As far as we know, all wine and spirit products must be shipped in partitioned boxes. All our product within these other categories had to comply.

There are all kinds of boxes and containers. The worst are the "pop" style cardboard trays wrapped in plastic. We have many of those smashed and damaged to a point that you just don't want to touch it... glass and sticky film all over the surviving bottles. Honestly, we are glad they are not acceptable.

All the Liquor Control boards do coordinate efforts, regulations etc through the Canadian Association of Liquor Jurisdictions. To learn more you can visit their website:
http://www.calj.org/

Cheers!

[Belgian]

(Thanks R & R!)

Given the size of our province, it is somewhat safe to say the product travels farther than in many other countries. Not only that your favourite beer must be distributed to your local store (Toronto, Barry's Bay, Sault St. Marie, Kapuskasing), even after it reaches its destination it sometimes gets transferred to another store....

...which imples more chances of broken bottles, true.

So this is the LCBO's fault. Why? They have a big, complicated distribution that is abnormal. Conversely, privatized retail would mean more direct travel & less breakage.

Hence, the 'non-standard' cartons work well enough in other countries but not here. This limits our already scant selection. It is also my feeling that cartons like Weltenburger are a genuine attempt to avoid excess packaging. So... privatized retail may prove to be 'greener' than the LCBO, in this regard.

Chalk one up again for full-selection private retail!

[Derek]

Reusable plastic crates seem to work in Germany.

Random photo off the web:
http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/k ... /tpod.html

[Torontoblue]

(Thanks R & R!)

Given the size of our province, it is somewhat safe to say the product travels farther than in many other countries. Not only that your favourite beer must be distributed to your local store (Toronto, Barry's Bay, Sault St. Marie, Kapuskasing), even after it reaches its destination it sometimes gets transferred to another store....

...which imples more chances of broken bottles, true.

So this is the LCBO's fault. Why? They have a big, complicated distribution that is abnormal. Conversely, privatized retail would mean more direct travel & less breakage.

Hence, the 'non-standard' cartons work well enough in other countries but not here. This limits our already scant selection. It is also my feeling that cartons like Weltenburger are a genuine attempt to avoid excess packaging. So... privatized retail may prove to be 'greener' than the LCBO, in this regard.

Chalk one up again for full-selection private retail!

But in the midst of all this packaging talk, you still have the variable of the carrier. I have had cases of wine arrive intact from Italy, Spain, Argentina into the LCBO warehouse and all conform to LCBO standards only to be broken by a 3rd party carrier when shipped out to customers in Ontario.

Not one to stick up for the LCBO but in this case I think they are right. How would you feel ordering a case of beer that arrived with 3 or 4 broken because there were no standards to adhere too? Pretty pissed, I'm sure?

In the end, if a supplier sends product and it's broken on the way to the LCBO warehouse through bad packaging then they lose out on the amount of bottles that are broken in transit.

[Belgian]

Reusable plastic crates seem to work in Germany.

Random photo off the web:
http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/k ... /tpod.html

Those work great for 500ml beers produced & distributed within Germany, German spring water too. It is a VERY committed and 'green' approach, but might not work for exporting beer.

The Plastic Carton system would work for our Ontario brands, but we're stuck on the 341 ml Standard Bottles & I imagine our big brewers have friends to protect in the cardboard carton industry, given the parochial attitude of TBS.

[JesseM]

Trafalgar Cedar Cream Ale is in the sytem! YES! And in stock! Let the parties begin!



Actually I'm sure I'll at least give it a try when it shows up 'round these here parts.

[Belgian]

Not one to stick up for the LCBO but in this case I think they are right. How would you feel ordering a case of beer that arrived with 3 or 4 broken because there were no standards to adhere too? Pretty pissed, I'm sure?

Good Q.

What's worth getting pissed about - having to sweep up the occasional mess, or never getting beers everyone in America can get?

Our LCBO (however efficiently run) rakes in so much obscene gross revenue on liquor, they could surely absorb "reasonable & customary" breakage costs as a known quantity of dealing with international products (especially smaller orders that have little impact.)

I know they are pedantic & probably love to minimize the tiniest inventory losses, but way beyond this the LC are not the most efficiently-run business in the world - they could work smarter & do with a few less big salaries on the Board. What if they address THOSE huge cash leaks first to improve the (infamously bad) operating margin, rather than focusing on petty losses in a way that ignores customer needs? The current approach is just misguided.

2¢.

[boney]

Trafalgar Cedar Cream Ale is in the sytem! YES! And in stock! Let the parties begin!



Actually I'm sure I'll at least give it a try when it shows up 'round these here parts.

I see that both Trafalgar products are now available in the Hammer and I will definitely give both a try.

I think it might have been you originally, Jesse, who posted that the Trafalgar beers were improving. Based on those posts I pretty much gave the entire line a second shot and, for the most part, wasn't disapointed. I think the improvements went beyond the fact that their beers weren't sour disasters, but also that Trafalgar seems to have amped up the flavour and aroma profiles quite a bit. In the past, even if their beers weren't spoiled, they failed to represent the intended style of beer, IMO. Everything tasted exactly the same and they were all extremely bland. Now at least, the SB tastes like a bitter and you can actually taste both roasted malts and oatmeal in the the Smoked Oatmeal Stout. They still aren't amazing beers but I'll definitely continue giving them a shot.